[aurizon]

These union organisers want jobs in the union they want elected so they can steal members money(indirectly by hiring friends, family, other union members etc). I am constantly amazed at how companies they get unionised end up with fewer jobs, and the companies get less profitable as well - they call it a lose-lose scenario. Russian hackers behind it no doubt...

[deogeo]

> and the companies get less profitable as well

Imagine how high profits could be if they didn't have to pay a wage at all!

[aurizon]

Lincoln eliminated that. When unions kill car companies and set up the scenes for Japanese, Korean and European car companies to decimate USA car sales. The strikes forced a high degree of automation on US car makers = 75% of jobs gone over 40 years. Japanese, Korean and Eurpoean car makers delevloped huge RoRo car carriers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll-on/roll-off). In 1960 cars were lloaded by cranes on slings and 10% had damage and each one took an hour os so to load/unload. The RoRo were built like parking lots. Drive the car down the long ramps on 7-10 levels, 5-10 cars wide. Park the car and go for the next car on foot while a rigger tightens chains to hooks on the car. Now you know what those hooks are for - RoRo loading. A ship could be loaded in a day, and unloaded as there were many drivers and ramps going at the same time. Unions killed US car industry, it is true. They struggle on byautomating and eliminating jobs and fasteners etc. Often woder why things are not repaired any more? Automation in assembly eliminated screws = now welded or rivetted = no repairs possible. They hate Tesla and want the unions to ruin Tesla so they can force their lame electric cars on you. American electrics have failed because the car makers built in huge dealer work potential. Ever wonder why Tesla has no dealers? Electric cars do not need dealers. Do you have a toaster dealer? Take in your toaster every few months for service etc. The whole car industry will be wrong out like a chickens neck by electric cars as allmost all dealer work will be gone. No engine work - electric motors run 1 million miles. No mufflers at all, brakes last 5 times as long, tires can lasy 500,000 miles if made with urethane etc. on and on. Tesla is your greatest friend. Conventional Car makers are spending millions in bribes to kill Tesla via crooked politicians....(yes, I mean paper bags of cash - the political donations by cheques are small and are within the legal limits)

[deogeo]

European car companies, such as the entirely unionized German automakers [1]?

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germa...

[aurizon]

Lol, Japanese and German unions differ from the leeches of US unions, and carefully consult with management, (since they also have a board seat or two) and they will not ask for wage increases that might harm the company and through their board access, they have the true facts - same facts as management. In fact some other European countries complain that German unions do not act like the leeches that French and British unions do. A good deal is where we both eat...

[deogeo]

You can't blame unions if management won't grant them any board access. Nor can you see the future to know that this not-yet-established union will act the same as those you are vilifying. Perhaps if management didn't treat them as the enemy before they are even founded, it could build a more cooperative relationship. And you have yet to prove it was unions that caused the fall of $US_INDUSTRY - suppose it was management instead? The worker compensation in Germany didn't harm those companies - yet the US workers receiving half that are to blame?

And is there any scenario in which US companies wouldn't blame unions? As long as labor costs are above zero, any failure can somehow be pinned on unions, while management and shareholders avoid getting called 'leeches'.

[aurizon]

Most US unions WILL NOT ACCEPT board seats or enter into any amity based relationship. I think it comes from the past history. Germans also get comprehensive health and other benefits and they allow management to kick out drunks and addicts instead of treating them as ill people who need remediation by health clinics - who kick back $ to patients. Many places have moved to places where workers have the right to join or not. That is why western New York state is a wasteland. Uneducated employees from bad schools with untion teachers etc etc.

[sneakernets]

I'm glad to see anti-union rhetoric hasn't really evolved in 40 years.

Strikes didn't "force" automation, the market did. Consumers did.

The reason why the US car industry really died is that the US car industry refused to compete, getting Congress in their pockets to ban their competition instead. So blaming unions while designing four-wheeled boats that got 15 MPG downhill, then legislating yourself to be the only choice... is hilarious! It's also against the entire spirit of the free market.

[britch]

If I understand you correctly you're saying American car manufacturers were speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

"Free market" when it comes to labor.

"Necessary protections" when it comes to international competition.

[aurizon]

Yes, hand in hand they walked the oppositional walk

[britch]

Could you provide an example (from a reputable source) of a company that had ended up with less jobs and less profit?

It seems plausible, but I'd like some evidence before accepting your claim.

[aurizon]

Burgess battery company, in Fort Erie Ontario. They were done in by the union at the Ever-ready factory in Buffalo, across the river, who organized them and then went on strike to leap the wages to the Ever-ready level but the company simply waited three months on the strike and closed down as after that three months on strike the workers were deemed to have quit and ended up with no jobs as well as no severance. They would get their old age security max of $586.xx as well as Canada Pension plan of 1,154.58 maximum (if they worked 40 years at the max pensionable wages - fee are half worker paid and half employee paid. If both husband and wife worked to the max they do very well with dual pension and dual CPP. Everready purchased Burgess batterey name rights, clients etc at the auction and carried on making Burgess batteries for years - since consumer batteries all conform to rules on sizes, it is a simple sticker game to make them, and the technology is also the same as well as the volts etc.