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by xedarius 2557 days ago
There’s an increasing groundswell of trust in AMD and their Ryzen chip. It’s great news, I’ve owned one for two years now and it’s fab.

The new XBox will feature a custom Ryzen of some form. Who’s next, Apple?

5 comments

>it’s fab.

Given that it's AMD, shouldn't that be "it's fabless"?

I've got a mix of Intel and AMD, and have had no loyalty back to when I replaced my Pentium 75 with a pre-unlocked AMD Duron from OcUK.

I'm so glad to see AMD not only raise its game exponentially, but also force Intel to compete. It's good for everyone.

My next purchase will probably be a Ryzen 5 2600, because the price drop ahead of the 3xxx has made them ridiculous value for money.

Definitely a good time to be a PC gamer.

Slightly frustrating that the integrated graphics 3x00G chips are basically Ryzen 2xxx chips though. I hope the g-range gets a refresh with proper Zen 2-based chips shortly.

WRT "who next", did you see the Chinese AMD custom Ryzen+Vega APU console last year, the Subor Z-Plus, with 8GB GDDR5 as shared system and graphics memory?

Totally agreed on the 3xxx(G|H) parts not being Zen 2, and really misleading on that front. Though they're mostly underclocked with lots of room for boost, so competitive to Intel's. Also the onboard vega gfx almost doesn't suck by comparison.
As a correction to the above, I replaced my Pentium 75 with a K6-2 350, which was then replaced with the unlocked Duron.
Given that it's AMD, shouldn't that be "it's fabless"?

It's "fabless fab!"

The current rumor is Apple is going to ARM in 2020 for their computers. There is uncertainty if that will include MacBook Pros or Mac Pros initially or if it will just be their Air and maybe the MacBooks to start with. That's not to say they won't take their higher-end computers to AMD but I would bet if they are moving to ARM at all they are going to push for everything to be on ARM eventually and it's probably not worth the effort to switch from Intel to AMD in the interim.
As long as they're coming out with new hardware configurations anyway, why should switching to AMD require substantial effort?

There are modified Darwin kernels that allow Hackintosh to work on AMD processors. These kernels have some stability issues, but if hobbyist outsiders can get most of the way, I don't forsee it being a big hurdle for actual Apple engineers.

Because strategically, the move to ARM makes more sense for them to focus on even if sticking with Intel is a bit more painful in the short term. They already have a large team working on ARM processors and an architecture license for the platform. With x86, they are basically just resellers. So adding AMD's flavor of x86 to their lineup would likely be seen as a distraction for them without providing a long-term benefit.
But by that logic, they shouldn’t come out with any new, non-ARM laptops at all!

As I see it, as long as Apple is putting out x86 hardware, there’s no reason why it can’t be AMD x86 hardware.

(I’m also secretly hoping the ARM thing won’t actually happen, but that’s neither here nor there, and I’m probably wrong.)

Honest question, why don't you want them to transition to ARM?
Primarily, compatibility with legacy apps, and compatibility with other OS's (eg Bootcamp/Parallels).

I also have major concerns about raw performance at the high end, and I suspect ARM would come with even more software lockdown, although there's no reason that has to be the case.

I was watching highlights of WWDC and they mentioned that they're adding support to XCode to migrate iPad apps to the desktop.

I subscribe to the theory that the Air will move to ARM at some point. Adding this feature to XCode sounds like the sort of thing you would do to prepare the way for an architecture shift. Especially if you were still on the fence about that shift. Let's just get a feel of how viable this space is before committing to anything.

Except the change to XCode is a direct conflict of interest with moving MacBooks to ARM platform. If they are moving to ARM soon, there is no point in adding a brand new feature to the IDE that helps convert ARM apps to x86 apps. The reason Apple is doing so is due to the new Ipad OS that resembles desktop interface.
Playstation 5 will also be based of Ryzen gen2 CPU and Navi GPU, both AMD.
Pretty sure Intel simply doesn't do bespoke parts (especially relatively low margin ones) so AMD is pretty much the only option.

After dropping Gen 7's PPC, both the PS4 and the XB1 were customised AMD APU, and there's no great architectural rival.

Intel does semi-customized parts, but mostly at the other end of the spectrum for cloud vendors.
Never say never. The Xbox had a customized Coppermine Pentium-III era processor from Intel.
> Never say never.

I didn't?

> The Xbox had a customized Coppermine Pentium-III era processor from Intel.

The original xbox was a PC in a box, the CPU was not a customised part.

I didn't literally say you said never, "never say never" is a common phrase.

And yes, the CPU was customized:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/853/2

At the very least, half of the cache is disabled. They cherry-picked a feature from the Pentium III lineup that they wanted to keep while lowering the cache to Celeron levels. It's a deliberate modification to reduce cost while maintaining desired performance.

It's not detectably customized beyond that but it's not like it's a SKU you can buy off the shelf, either.

AND the new Google Stadia (using AMD GPU's server-side to do the heavy-lifting).
The existing Xboxes and PlayStations already use AMD CPUs.
I could understand Apple not wanting to jump all over Ryzen 1000 from day one, but not even Zen2 2-based Ryzen 3000? Even after the whole 5G spat it had with Intel?

I'm not sure what they're waiting for exactly.

The thought would be that they don't want to do any architecture shifts before they bring it all over to their own ARM chips. And AMD still doesn't really deal with laptop processors.
Firstly it might be more complicated than that, they may have a contract in place with intel where they need to stick with them for X amount of years in return for cheaper stock or better deals elsewhere (Apple and intel work together on other things). That’s hypothetical, but it’s certainly not as simple as “they should just switch”.

Secondly Apple might be waiting for their own chips to reach a point where they can be used in their laptops/desktops and jump on to that. It would be overkill to use ryzen as an interim.

Thunderbolt.
Actually it's confirmed that some of the X570 motherboards will have TB3.
Good to know, thanks!
WHAT?!? Thats awesome news
Some x470 boards support it to via an addin card and thunderbolt header. To get displayport passed through you need to run a cable from your graphics card output to the addin card input. It's not very tidy and doesn't work 100%.

I'm hoping someone eventually just does the needful and sticks a thunderbolt chipset on a PCIE4 graphics card and makes it work somehow.

Shouldn't be deal breaker anymore since thunderbolt became a part of USB