[JumpCrisscross]

> the idea of the statute seems to be that the government will not void, nullify, or refuse to enforce the terms of an electronic contract

Unless Chase explicitly said wet signature, then a government court would find the electronic signature valid.

[mehrdadn]

While I disagree on that point, what about the fact that the terms require you to mail it yourself.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what "wet signature" means. The claim was not quite that the signature has to be in ink. The debate is over whether you (not someone else) are performing the signing, and whether you (not someone else) are mailing (not emailing etc.) it on paper (not e.g. a flash drive) or not. Which, to me, means you could sign on your computer/tablet/etc., then print that as your signature with a printer and then mail the form, with no ink involved anywhere in the process. That seems like a pretty reasonable interpretation of "personally signing" the letter and "mailing" it, so Chase would have a hard time arguing you didn't do that. But to type your name on a random website for someone else to print and mail the contract on your behalf? You neither personally signed that letter (whether on the computer or on the paper) nor did you mail it... all you did was casually tell some random guy on the internet to impersonate you to your financial institution.

[Cogito]

Reading the above comment, where does it say it has to be personally mailed?

> Your notice must be mailed to us at P.O. Box 15298, Wilmington, DE 19850-5298.

That sounds like it has to be mailed, but who does the mailing doesn't matter. Similarly, wouldn't matter if you used the post or a courier.

[mehrdadn]

I didn't mean "mail" as in "literally drop off the envelope in the post box", I just meant "mail" as in "write the letter to be mailed". And no, when I say "write" I don't mean it necessarily precludes voice recognition or whatever new counterexample you might be trying to think of now either.

[Cogito]

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what that means though. If I printed off the form from the website would that count as me writing the letter to be mailed?

In any case, in the stuff quoted up top, I don't read this concept that it must be done personally. For example, it seems like it would be fine for my accountant to do it for me (though they may need me to sign it? maybe they can affix a seal or something)

There must be a way for a business to opt out of this clause, right?

[mehrdadn]

Well I imagine the business case (if they even send the same kind of notification to businesses, which I don't know to be true or false) is easy since presumably the business's name is on the account and said business has someone authorized to take care of such paperwork, and I doubt the letter would (or should, for that matter) be accepted if it comes from someone else in the business. Presumably Chase could call back the business's legal department and ask if they weren't sure if it's valid? Dunno, but I don't see it as a very realistic question.

In terms of you as a consumer using the template they gave you, I mean, in principle I would assume it would count (you put your signature on it and mailed it; it clearly signals your own volition and intent to opt out), but I could see a judge saying no if Chase gave a convincing counterarguments why (e.g. hypothetically if Chase had a habit of getting a lot of legitimately fake opt-outs that they couldn't distinguish from yours, and if it would be obviously bad public policy to accept them, then yours probably shouldn't be valid either). Ultimately I'm not claiming gray areas are nonexistent...

[JumpCrisscross]

I agree with you on the mailing part. Was just pointing out that a personal signature and electronic signature are identical unless specifically stated otherwise due to the E-Sign Act.

[mehrdadn]

Re: that part: but you don't even have any way to sign this electronically to begin with. They did not provide you with an electronic form/page/whatever to sign, nor an electronic address to send your signature to. The contract required you to personally sign and mail a letter into that P.O. Box, and unless you plan on downloading your signature into that P.O. Box, you don't really have any other option besides paper (unless you get clever with papyrus or something I guess). No matter how I slice and dice it I don't see how the E-Sign act has any kind of relevance here... except perhaps for the part that if you keep a scanned copy of your letter for your records, that'd be considered just as valid of a record as a photocopy?