[vajaya]

basically Chinese government doesn't want its citizens to talk anything cultural, political, spiritual, religious, etc. If you wanna talk fashion, food, travel, music, and the likes, that's absolutely fine. and it seems Chinese people are perfectly content with it. I heard that wechat is transparent to Chinese authority. Last year, a dozens of college students who are Marxist activists and advocate for workers' right in Shenzhen(yes, that techy wonderland so much applauded on HN) were arrested and disappeared since. Some say the authority can watch their every move via wechat.

[pishpash]

Don't make blanket statements about billions of people like "they are content with it". Some might be, some might appear to be, some might not have thought about it, some might very much not be.

[vajaya]

that's why I said it seems...because I'm not aware of any academia discourse or civil societal movement from china focusing on this kind of thought policing in its extreme. based on what I experienced, It SEEMS to me Chinese people are quite content and obsessed with their economic well-being.

Historically it's the middle class people who demand a share of power and who initiate all sorts of social reform and progression to protect their wealth and social status. Chinese middle class is very large now(in both absolute and relative terms) and arguably more wealthy than their western counterpart, however, the expected calling for more freedom, democracy, and human rights simply does not exist.

[Cypher]

Well worker rights is a fantasy in the west too.

Google and facebook track our every moves and the NSA can watch over our every move. The scary thing is few journalist are left to talk about it over here.

[komali2]

The NSA can't watch our every move, that's illegal.

We learned from Edward Snowden that they do so for some people anyway, illegally. It's bad and wrong.

It's not nearly at the level of China.

America doesn't have xinjiang reeducation camps for political dissidents that also happens to be full of people charged with the crime of being religious.

America isn't harvesting the organs of its prisoners against their will.

The consequences of being caught by the Chinese surveillance machine is far, far worse in China than it is in the USA, which really doesn't even have it at the same level.

[dannyw]

Broadly speaking, while the NSA’s spying is illegal, horrible, and despicable, they are not known to be used for political intimidation and censorship.

I can very loudly protest against the president, or the NSA itself without fear of retribution.

*Exceptions exist but these principles are 10000x stronger than China.

[pishpash]

You've not heard of how the FBI tracked MLK, or anybody else who presented a genuine threat to the state or state ideology?

[komali2]

That's happening today, in China. It's not, in the USA.

For example, you are allowed to go in front of the capital right now and spread the word of FBI actions re MLK. If you did this in China, you'd be sent to a reeducation camp, or simply killed and your organs harvested.

[pishpash]

If we're talking about what a state considers to be marginal groups, you must not compare your own imagined experiences if you're not part of a marginal group. The consequences of being caught by the police as a black man, for example, is far far worse in the US than it is in China or many other places. This is also a much more likely event.

You might want to try arousing the suspicions of your own state to see how it really reacts. You might be disappointed.

[sjy]

> The consequences of being caught by the police as a black man, for example, is far far worse in the US than it is in China or many other places.

This claim is almost impossible to evaluate. What do you mean by 'caught'? Are you referring to guilty people being punished in accordance with the law? Innocent people being unfairly targeted for investigation? Or illegal police brutality?

[stevenhuang]

Pointing out the marginalization of black people in US is not the argument you want to make. Are you aware of China's persecution of the Uyghur people? Internment camps, forced labour and reeducation?

Things are a thousand times worse over there. It's good to be aware of things we need to improve on, but do not lose perspective.

[SpicyLemonZest]

Where is over here? In all the Western countries I'm familiar with, journalists are free to say bad things about Google and Facebook and the NSA, and it happens with some regularity.