[ksec]

>I dont know what the exact percent is, but you're paying a significant markup on hardware for Apple vs, say a Dell, for the same hardware.

Do we have to have this even on HN?

People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower.

The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was.

I find this both fascinating and annoying how people can price something to zero and immediately think it offer no value to others while simultaneously think they deserve better salary or paid. Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration.

And if anyone wants to ask about Mac Pro price, try spec one out with Dell or HP Workstation and see how they compare. Apple isn't too far off.

The whole Workstation market operating on this margin, I have no idea why other they charge this because they can. But Apple's Mac Pro is quite competitive in its pricing. If all you are looking for is a prosumer, upgradable, Desktop Mac, the Mac Pro isn't for you.

[nikofeyn]

> People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower. The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was.

this is kind of an interesting comment. especially since you mentioned bmw. with bmw, you literally are buying a brand. i know at least two motorcycle dealers that stopped carrying bmw because bmw required very specific, and very expensive, signage, paint scheme, flooring, etc. to just be a bmw dealer, even if the dealer carried other motorcycle brands (which were typically high-end italian brands).

the new kia stinger performance destroys the equivalent bmw car, at a significant fraction of the price. not to mention the stinger looks better (subjective) and has insane fit and finish.

https://youtu.be/sPD1joDOlLo

my kia optima has a better fit and finish and leather than any tesla i have been in. with those companies, you are buying a brand more than anything.

> Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration.

every apple product i have purchased has quit working. my iPad air stopped after just two years of babied operation. it wouldn’t even turn on or charge. apple wanted $300 to “repair” it after claiming it wasn’t a battery issue. my macbook pro’s wifi card stopped after just five years, and many keys barely work due to key failure. the bluetooth never worked with speakers (a common and well documented issue). the chassis would shock me in certain scenarios (another well documented and known issue by users). again, it was babied. my macbook before that required three unsuccessful replacements of the dvd drive before they replaced the entire macbook. my brother’s iphone 7s plus stopped the day after the warranty ended. apple did nothing. another friend’s iPhone 6s plus would just barely work, less than two years in, even after a battery replacement by apple.

and better software integration? not even close. iOS has been a travesty on the iPad in terms of integration. (just try to use multiple audio, music apps and see.) hardly anything about apple’s software just works anymore. i constantly had issues with audio software breaking after basically forced os upgrades.

[danielscrubs]

1. my iPad air stopped after just two years of babied operation. - My Windows phone stopped getting software updates 6 months after I bought it, brand new. My Android tablet stopped charging after one and a half year.

2. macbook pro’s wifi card stopped. - I've had WiFi cards that never shipped drivers for the latest Windows OS, after just a year.

3. key failure - Valid, and pretty inexcusable by Apple

4. bluetooth never worked with speakers. - Bluetooth (below v4) never worked correctly between different brands, always had issues no matter what combo I used.

5. audio software breaking... well Windows are insanely great on backwards compability for apps, I'll give you that.

My point is that there will be issues wherever you go. I have a Macbook that is working after 10 years. I had a Toshiba that broke after just one year (soundcard). My family members have had two Dells that broke before reaching 2 years.

The only ones that have data points on this I assume are insurance companies.

[nikofeyn]

all i can go off of is my own experience. i can’t think of any other consumer electronics that have just outright failed like my apple products have. it is significant. and no one else is claiming those other products are built better than everything else, which is part of my point. apple markets and hypes themselves like no other company, and people just end up repeating what apple says, where apple gives no data to back up their claims. they just state it as fact, and yet, in many people’s experience, apple products fail just as if not more often than other brands.

and you are missing the point as well that many of these issues on the apple products are long standing issues across multiple iterations of them. just search bluetooth audio not working on macbook pro’s (iPads and iPhones have been fine in my experience). it is specific to them. and again, i have never had a single issue with other bluetooth devices and audio. (there’s an interesting issue too with bluetooth headphones. for certain bluetooth headphones, mac os x will automatically open itunes upon connect, and there’s nothing you can do other than having to go through a convoluted process to basically rename itunes so that it doesn’t get launched. this isn’t “just works”. and again, pointing other issues with other brands is irrelevant because it is apple that is being claimed as robust and always working.)

and the branding thing is still not addressed. my lg v35 is every bit as good as my girlfriend’s and brother’s iPhone xs max and even has major features the iPhone doesn’t have, and yet, it was almost half the price. you can’t explain that any other way than people pay apple for the brand.

[danielscrubs]

Apple themselves doesn't really compare themselves to PC manufacturers any longer, so that's probably by journalists being edgy as always.

My experience with PC:s and Bluetooth has been very different from yours. One time I even remember buying a Bluetooth dongle even though the motherboard had it built in, just to make it connect. But to be honest it more than a decade ago.

I'm actually in process of upgrading from iPhone SE to LG V30 or Xiaomi Mi, though I really don't like switching from Apples ecosystem especially now when they are getting even more privacy-focused. I can understand why the iPhone XR and the likes are so expensive from the spec-sheet, but I really don't need those specs (especially if you factor in non-linearity of pricing, so a 10% "better" camera might mean a 40% more expensive camera chip). LG V30 has a lot of cool features so it's still a massive upgrade for me. End-to-end screen, good battery life and wireless charging.

[ksec]

>The only ones that have data points on this I assume are insurance companies.

So much this, not saying Apple's product are perfect ( Far from it ), they are just comparatively ( Not selectively comparing, but over all ) better. And yes I think by Numbers BMW might even be less reliable than the Toyota, but people still buy BMW, for quality that is hard to quantify in numbers.

It is one reason I really wish SurfaceBook and Chrome Book could do better. Apple need some competition to keep them sane.

[whenchamenia]

BMW consistintly ranks at the bottom of reliability raitings, and toyota at the top. Its hard to compre the difference in construction. BMW has more luxury feel, but the fit and finish, and general construction are not on par with their japneese rivals.