[guitarbill]

Might as well deprive them of normal social interactions and different opinions while you're at it. Personally, I'm glad my country does not allow such nonsense and hubris. Of course, it's a straw man, you can care about your children's education in other ways, and outside of school, too.

[rgrieselhuber]

It varies depending on circumstances, of course, but the vast majority of homeschooled kids I've met are very well socialized, capable of reasoned debate, and quite well-rounded in their outlook on life. By contrast, in American public schools at least, I'm seeing a serious trend toward unhealthy social interactions, cyber bullying, teachers who only have time for testing, and more. If your country doesn't allow it, you may not have had the chance to observe the difference but it's pretty significant.

[guitarbill]

> I'm seeing a serious trend toward unhealthy social interactions, cyber bullying

Admittedly the "cyber" part is relatively new, but that's called being a teenager. I'd rather my kids have this learning experience for the future. Me having to help them through it is simply part of being a parent. Especially if it's difficult, there's a learning experience in that.

> If your country doesn't allow it, you may not have had the chance to observe the difference

I've travelled and lived in other countries...

> but the vast majority of homeschooled kids I've met are very well socialized, capable of reasoned debate, and quite well-rounded in their outlook on life

...and I'm pretty sure this is selection bias based on your social circles, and not a universal truth.

Finally, it's bizarre to me that in a first-world country, smart and rich parents have decided the education system is so broken, it needs to be worked around instead of engaging with it and driving change. Seems to be a very selfish attitude: at least my kids are doing fine, and screw other kids who's parents may not have the time or resources to care and improve things.

[esaym]

>Finally, it's bizarre to me that in a first-world country, smart and rich parents have decided the education system is so broken, it needs to be worked around instead of engaging with it

Most homeschooling programs in the USA are (were) heavily religion based. But, in the last 10 years I've seen a growing number of non-religious curriculums that are now available. This clearly shows that neither the religious nor the atheists are happy with the schooling system. There's clearly a problem. And in the same time period (at least in Texas), the standardized testing has increased which leaves schools with less freedom on what to teach as all time must be devoted to what is on the test (which is of questionable content)

[rgrieselhuber]

That sure is a lot of assumptions and accusations.

[ilikehurdles]

Most of the comment was spent explaining the counter-arguments to your own accusations.

Homeschool helicopter-parents have thought that public schools are a dumpster fire for as long as they have existed. Parents absolutely do not have the skills alone to give their children a well-rounded education, period. That some people can even think this could ever be different is a testament to the low quality of education and media in the US.

[rgrieselhuber]

Show me an accusation I made? I don't see any.

> Parents absolutely do not have the skills alone to give their children a well-rounded education, period. That some people can even think this could ever be different is a testament to the low quality of education and media in the US.

That's why you don't do it alone. You get involved with co-ops, sign them up for classes, use established curricula, and more.

[ameister14]

>That some people can even think this could ever be different is a testament to the low quality of education and media in the US.

Exactly - they weren't home-schooled.

[Noos]

Yeah they are nice; they've been trained to be. A lot of their issues though only pop up later in life, like in college. Things like struggling with deadlines, since now teach isn't mom who needs to go shopping and will let you turn in your homework late, or who can be bullied to do so. Or remedial ed; a lot of homschoolers are massively deficient in math, since very few parents can teach it.

There are issues with the ones you don't meet; lax homeschooling regulation and oversight can easily cover for parental abuse, and unschooling can really mess up a kid too.

[iamnothere]

Many homeschooling programs have a mandatory requirement that includes time spent with other kids in a sort of classroom setting; it's just that this doesn't happen every day, unlike a regular school.

It's not "hubris" to homeschool when your school system is a dumpster fire. We've spent decades trying to improve the schools in some areas, only to see continued decline and often blatant political sabotage that seems to be endemic to the system. What can you do in that case if (a) you care about your child's future and (b) you can't move for whatever reason?

[guitarbill]

> when your school system is a dumpster fire

let's assume this represents a person's view. then surely, most of society is fucked, and the logical solution is to move to a different country that doesn't have these issues? or do you also see it as a zero-sum game? as in, if society is dumber and my kids are smarter, that's a win? that doesn't ring true in my experience, given that humans are social creatures. or are you simply banking on that they'll be enough people out there and enough separation via social circles to weed out the suckers who had to run this dumpster fire gauntlet?

[iamnothere]

> the logical solution is to move to a different country that doesn't have these issues

You ignored the second part of my statement: many people don't have the means or skills needed to move to another city, let alone another country, or they are bound to the local area due to caring for an aging parent, etc.

If you are trapped in a difficult situation but your kids have a chance to break free, wouldn't you try to help them take advantage of that opportunity? I think most people would put their own children first, frankly. Not that sending them to a terrible school would help anyone!

[Noos]

Homeschooling has very few actual requirements, and they vary from state by state. Here is a map of them:

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/homeschool

The majority of the states don't even require the parents to have a high school diploma. Many don't require any assessments, or impose any penalties if they are failed. Eleven states don't even require the parent to notify the state they are homeschooling the child.

The idea of your mandatory requirements is not correct. One of the big dangers of homeschooling is simple fatigue; if the mother gets weary and skips lessons she will face little to no sanction for it.

[iamnothere]

At the bottom:

> Note: These regulations do not pertain to students taught at home by certified teachers. In some states, private school regulations also apply to homeschools. In others, parents can choose to operate as a private school, but are overseen by accredited private schools and typically face different requirements.

The last part is what I was referring to. As an example, here's Iowa's homeschooling options: https://www.educateiowa.gov/pk-12/options-educational-choice...

They provide this as one option:

> Home schooling with the support of a certified teacher. Home instruction is supervised by a teacher hired by the family or provided by a district’s Home School Assistance program (HSAP).

And this as well:

> Part-time homeschool with part-time enrollment in a school district. The student completes some instruction at home, and participates in a public school for some instruction or extra-curricular activities.

They also allow homeschooling without this kind of support, or attendance in unaccredited schools, which seems troubling. For parents who are not prepared to teach this is obviously an issue; Iowa should probably limit their homeschooling options to those which provide a good education. To me, this is not indicative of a problem with homeschooling per se, but rather a problem with the specific state policy which allows for less-than-adequate homeschooling programs.