[dijit]

Not sure how true this is.

I run my own infra (caldav,carddav,imap/smtp) and all of it intergrates seamlessly into iOS and macOS. I tried the same on android and it did not work seamlessly with anything except google services.

Sure, their own stuff works better with their own stuff, and yes, the watches can't be configured without a phone, but that's also true of android.

[josteink]

Could you outline what kind of problems you had with android and integration? In my experience android is the superior platform for plugging in your own modules and your own data where you want it.

[dijit]

The way you describe it; I would agree. You can "do anything" on Android, but this leads to poor implementations for common things.

What I'm referencing is that the OS and Apples own applications are built to support what I would be consider very sane defaults (as in, it supports me doing my own thing, without the need for plugins/modules).

My experience is that on Android I had to have many third-party integrators to get things up and working, and they were very poor quality and would run in the background murdering my battery life. (and I had to pay for it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=at.bitfire.dav...)

IMAP/SMTP Were less of a problem but it always /felt/ very third party when using tools for that purpose, where google mail was truly first class. On iOS I don't feel this way at all, once I had push notifications set up the experience was identical (if not a little better with my own server due to apples SMTP servers getting overloaded).

So, you're right when you say that Android is more modular and supports stronger composibility of the system. But the experience of actually using it is so incredibly poor that even with Apple doing it's bullshit (no small phones, no headphone jack, protruding camera) I have very little inclination to go back- the "feeling" I get is that it's funnelling me to third parties, whether it be google or samsungs awful "samsung cloud ecosystem"

[josteink]

> My experience is that on Android I had to have many third-party integrators to get things up and working

That you have to buy/install CalDAV AND CardDAV connectors is indeed a weird shortcoming of Android. On the flip-side you had the option to do so.

Also, in the age of everything-SaaS, a one time payment of $10 for basic infrastructure isn’t all that bad.

> IMAP/SMTP Were less of a problem but it always /felt/ very third party when using tools for that purpose, where google mail was truly first class.

What Email app did you use? Gmail (which obviously treats Gmail better) or something else?

> But the experience of actually using it is so incredibly poor

Different strokes to different folks I guess.

I never experienced Android to be that different (or worse) when using my own standards-based providers.

That said iOS feels a lot more coherent if you stick to Apple apps all the way. But not being able to set another default browser or email client is just weird.

[dijit]

> That said iOS feels a lot more coherent if you stick to Apple apps all the way. But not being able to set another default browser or email client is just weird.

in this, we agree.

> What Email app did you use? Gmail (which obviously treats Gmail better) or something else?

Samsung mail, I couldn't find any decent alternatives, maybe this is my shortcoming for not knowing what is available?

>Also, in the age of everything-SaaS, a one time payment of $10 for basic infrastructure isn’t all that bad.

Except I'm paying to use a connector to use /my/ infrastructure. But, I don't mind paying for software, so long as it's good and well integrated. DavDroid was half decent, worth the money if you consider the effort involved, but not "good".

[josteink]

> Samsung mail, I couldn't find any decent alternatives, maybe this is my shortcoming for not knowing what is available?

Oddly enough, one of the best options I found was Outlook. No really!

Simple to setup, easy to use. No need to fiddle with 2000 settings.

[SXX]

> Sure, their own stuff works better with their own stuff, and yes, the watches can't be configured without a phone, but that's also true of android.

Android have quite good open source project for this:

https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge

Obviously its not what Google intended, but Android is just better when it comes to support of open source alternatives. Yet obviously as I posted already in this topic it's hard to build convenient infrastructure for yourself in general.

[eklavyaa]

Thats more of a business interest, Apple dont want to focus on other platforms, rather promotes its own ecosystem

[bflesch]

What software are you using for caldav?

[dijit]

Radicale, it's really good for personal use. :)

[ekianjo]

it works fine on android as well, you just have to download a few clients from a store like FDroid.

[dijit]

All well and good to say such things, could you point me to a few?

I was using Android as a daily driver for over 6 months and I didn't find anything in the play store that was of sufficient quality. (DAVDroid being the closest to decent, but it ran in the background and didn't do 2-way-sync correctly etc)

FWIW I was using a Samsung Galaxy S8, and that model does not have the ability to be flashed (and I think it doesn't to this day)

EDIT: I'm wrong, there is unofficial S8 images for lineageOS as of March 2019: https://www.xda-developers.com/lineageos-16-unofficial-samsu...

More than 2 years after the phone was released though, and only for one type of S8 (Exynos). But at least it's possible now.

[ekianjo]

I use DAVDroid (now DAVx5) and I have had no issues with it so far, coupled with a NextCloud DAV server. So far it has worked well to sync contact information, calendars and the like (for close to 2 years now)

[dijit]

it would be stupid (and ignorant) of me to claim that it doesn't work for anybody.

I'm glad it works for you, it wasn't a very nice experience for me and it's certainly not comparable to having the OS designed and built for my use-case in mind, but I certainly don't think it's "unworkable" just that Apple provides a superior product in this example.

:)

[ekianjo]

Apple usually has better integration when they care about something, but in most cases I find their offering lacking or not free enough so Android feels like a better environment at this stage to supplement the functions of the base OS with less restrictions. For example, I really like the fact that I can see the file system on Android, while on iOS it's completely obfuscated from the end user.