[jimbokun]

"Views should contain no logic, controllers should contain as little code as possible to grab model data and anything else needed to show in the view, models should be where all the magic happens."

This is exactly right, and diametrically opposed to J2EE "best practices," where pretty much every model "object" ends up as a Java Bean with a no-args constructor, public accessors for every field, and no business logic whatsoever. And to think they have the nerve to still call this "object oriented programming."

[getsat]

I have no Java experience aside from playing Minecraft and running OpenOffice, but I feel like I dodged a bullet by avoiding it as a programming language/platform. Everything I've ever read about it makes it feel extremely overwrought and bloated.

I'm perfectly content with the Smalltalk-inspired object model Ruby uses. :)