[isbjorn16]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I think I now see the disconnect we (or better put, I) had and I'm sorry I didn't see it before.

If there's no financial or legal penalties for discharging the loan debt due to bankruptcy, people may be more apt to go that route, disrupting the entire lending system.

If that's right, and I read the rest of your comment in that context, you're basically lamenting the fact that there's no outrageous material downsides for people being taken by duplicitous lenders and education institutions. And if that's also what you meant, then I agree; that's certainly a problem that would need to be solved as well if blanket debt forgiveness were to occur. That seems to be just as untenable a situation as the one we have now - and by my view, the situation we have now is wildly untenable and is going to hobble our entire country and economy for decades to come if we don't change _something_.

I'm going to stop riffing on "and if"s, though - that's just doubling down on the same mistake I made earlier. My apologies!

[microcolonel]

Yeah, sorry for not making it clearer at the outset. I'm coming from the perspective of somebody who is building a product to (among other things) help people prevent household debt from ruining their lives (starting here in Canada); and I've given out a lot of loans in the family to prevent debt spirals, so I definitely feel for people in this position.

At the same time, my personal experience is completely different. I was difficult in primary school, probably because of family issues. I dropped out effectively before high school, and started doing contract work (and eventually full time work at 17) on software. I got my start based on little more than natural confidence and many hours of reading Wikipedia and StackOverflow from about age 8, eventually on my first personal computer, which I bought at 14 with about 95% of the money (I always begged for cash instead of toys and hometown giftshop trinkets) I'd received in my life. After biking about two hours a day just for work (rain or shine, usually rain it seemed), I decided to leave home to be closer to work and farther from my mother, and I was lucky enough to have a friend who would let me crash on his couch for a few months.

Even with the rather extreme subsidies here in Ontario, I couldn't really afford to take time to go to school; I could now, but I probably don't need to. That's basically why I feel that it would be unjust if I moved to the U.S. (I'm a citizen) and that started immediately with paying off other people's loans that the federal government gave out like candy, for something I couldn't even afford to buy if it were free.

[isbjorn16]

Side note: I was given my first student loan when I was 17. I was the only signatory.

I'm still not sure how that was allowed; at least it's an amusing anecdote, though.