[ksec]

Rails doesn't scale, or more accurately described as Rails does not scale easily or cheaply. A lot of people doing consultation may have heard their client ask if they should switch to something else because Rails does not X, or Y or Z. ( Normally the standard reply is But GitHub and Shopify is using Rails as well, which should settle the argument )

Rails, by default is still viewed as a Server Rendered Only Framework. Although its API Mode could be used with any front end such as Vue.js, it doesn't seems to be well known or gaining any momentum.

I am wondering if Ruby Rails will ever pick up something similar to liveView [1], instead of sprinkle of Javascript, LiveView could get rid of it. It fits the narrative of Ruby Rails, and for those that don't like it could still use it as Rails-API and some other front end.

Edit: Turns out there is something similar on Rails called Fie. [2]

[1] https://dockyard.com/blog/2018/12/12/phoenix-liveview-intera...

[2] https://fie.eranpeer.co

[diveanon]

I am curious about your definition of scale, because in my experience this is just flat out untrue.

[ksec]

It just basically meant it uses more hardware resources than Go or JSP. Which is a problem in places like China, when the Scale is 10x of anywhere else, Salary is 5x lower, and Computer Resources are 2x - 3x more expensive.

[diveanon]

Fair enough, I was thinking in terms of SV salaries and western compute resources.

[ksec]

A few more Data Point, The total online population in China is more than online population of US, Canada and Whole of EU combined. And while US, Canada and EU are separated by 10+ time zone, China is in one time zone, the peak traffic of anything that gets small traction in China is likely to be 10x if not a lot higher.

The average salary of an entry level Ruby on Rails Dev in China is under 24K USD.

And while everything is cheap in China, for whatever strange reason their Cloud Compute Resources and Bandwidth are 2x of even Amazon in Hong Kong or Australia ( Some of the most expensive instances in AWS ).

And you get the idea why pretty no one outside of High Salaries Region, ( US, UK, Germany, France ) are using Ruby Rails. Sometimes the equation or selling point just doesn't fit.

[diveanon]

I never really considered the economics of programming languages in this regard. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation.

If you were starting up a web app in China what languages would you choose?

[ksec]

It is a complicated question, and I don't have an answer.

Ruby Rails is still the best for SaaS type of product, in the West or the East. With SaaS, your cost of scaling is proportional to your revenue. That is why you see BaseCamp, Shopify, ZenDesk, AirBnB, Github. All of them works well because the cost of framework or languages shouldn't really matter, since every user are paying you. But in a freemium model or ads based model, which is extremely popular in the East, your initial breakeven point will be a lot higher.

But it is not about the technical challenges, there are very little Ruby talent pool in China. Many Rubyist couldn't find jobs and switched to Java or Python. The phase for many Rubyist is; I love Ruby, but Ruby doesn't feed me. And precisely because Ruby Rails is more expensive to run for those in charge, they will adopt something faster like Go. ( Something like Gitea [1] came from China) Which means even less project being done on Ruby, and even less Jobs, with no demand in Jobs also mean people are not going to learn it. It is a vicious cycle.

And without a talent pool, it doesn't really matter what languages or framework you love or thinks works best.

[1] https://gitea.io/en-us/