[ixtli]

For sure! I'm not saying democracy should be abandoned. I'm saying that

1) china might not actually be quite like its depicted in the west 2) what we call authoritarian is often just counter to our ideology that people should be able to deploy capital however they see fit with little consequence.

Anyway your point that it just takes correctly allocated capital to solve this problem is 100% salient.

(And before anyone jumps on #2, yes, the CPC does not allow some types of political dissent that we are allowed in public in the west and that should be criticized. But we need to criticize it for the right reasons, as opposed to blindly asserting that nothing horrible has ever happened due to what I would call free speech fundamentalism.)

[dang]

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20030438 and marked it off-topic.

[DataWorker]

“what we call authoritarian” is rolling over protestors with tanks. That’s for starters.

[pm90]

How about systemic criminalization of previously enslaved minority population so they’re unable to make any economic gains? Disenfranchisement so they’re unable to vote for leaders with their interests?

That sounds pretty authoritarian to me. The difference is simply that it’s cleverly hidden from plain view.

[whatshisface]

I see this argument a lot in China threads, "America has already used up the world's supply of crime, so everyone else is forced to remain innocent." Unfortunately, bad government is not finite, every country can manufacture their own.

[pm90]

I think we're in agreement.

Its ok to point out that the Chinese Government is authoritarian and does many things that Civilized people find reprehensible.

Its ok to point out that the US Government is democratic, but with many authoritarian tendencies, which have targeted minorities, Women etc. for a very long time which Civilized people find reprehensible.

Its not OK to use one incident of authoritarianism as a cudgel against another country like your own country hasn't done similar things. That is a recipe for jingoism, nationalism and other -isms.

[jolfdb]

Not every bad thing is authoritarian. Sometimes you have people powered plagues, such as racism and bigotry, which have been part of human nature for millennia.

[pm90]

Lawful discrimination against minorities (Jim Crow, Poll Taxes etc.) is by definition authoritarian. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

[false-mirror]

"But we need to criticize it for the right reasons..."

Sure, but no one is criticizing china for its conservation efforts. Their political assassinations and decimation of civil liberties however...

I'm all for changing the unsustainable and ecologially detrimental status quo among western liberal democracies-- but ecofascism or eco-state-capitalism are not a viable alternatives. Literally any government can plant trees and shut down factories-- let's not use this to defend unrelated horrors.

[gamblor956]

China has been disappearing students got the past several months for supporting labor rights...in a communist country..

[ixtli]

THIS is a criticism of the CPC. Also, China is not a communist country.