[chewz]

> Governments will not oblige their citizens to make steps on their consumption if it means reducing their comfort and their economic power.

Here is the catch - efforts to reduce overconsumption mean slowing economy and lower tax base. No goverment can afford that.

> Imagine riots because people want to keep using their cars and trade goods that have become illegal, or vendettas against people who emit co2.

I believe we are on a verge of Millenial movement of some sort that will make a matter of enviroment a quasi religion of sorts. That would change the attitudes.

[mcv]

For a long time, the only times pollution reduced was during economic slowdowns. Lately, these movements have become separate. Measures to make our consumption cleaner means we can reduce our pollution without having to reduce our consumption, and that's basically what we need. Cleaner energy production, electric cars, better insulated houses, etc. It's happening way too slowly, but it is happening. We can absolutely do this if we put more effort in phasing out the old technologies.

[crispinb]

The superstition that so-called 'economic growth' (which is actually not growth at all, but just a global entropy increase) can be decoupled from physical dismantling of ecosystems is a faith-based initiative of consumer-fundamentalism. There's no evidence that it's possible, and even the best approaches we can make would take centuries of technological advance - each decade destroying more of our living home.

[solarkraft]

> I believe we are on a verge of Millenial movement of some sort that will make a matter of enviroment a quasi religion of sorts. That would change the attitudes.

It's happening. And I'm really happy about it.

[robbiep]

So did everyone in the 60s and at other periods. The world changes, but it’s no revolution. I’ll believe it when I see it, I remain cautiously optimistic but have my doubts as to whether the ‘millennials’ will be able to pry themselves away from their self interest for long enough

[whatshisface]

Leaded gasoline, rivers that you can light on fire with a match, and chlorofluorocarbons are all things that were around America in 1960.

[robbiep]

And the world will be a different place in another 50 years, but did the golden age that all our parents thought was coming in the 60s materialise to their expectations? let's temper ours lest we grow disappointed and jaded.

Change is slow when viewed in a small timescale, and massive when viewed on a large one. I hope we sort our shit out, and I will contribute to the best of my ability to bring this about if at all possible. But, you know, history.

[whatshisface]

Aside from the 1950s equivalents of Ray Kurzweil, how many people back then really thought a golden age was on its way?

[Sharlin]

The birth of the first Green movement in the 70s was very much revolutionary. The cultural memory of just how bad things used to be has unfortunately already faded, to the extent that reactionary forces are endeavoring to bring back the bad old times.

[solarkraft]

I'd like to add, in case you don't know what I'm refering to:

There is a large movement widely called "Fridays for Future" going on lots of european cities (large and small) in which students will go on a school strike to demonstrate for sensible climate policy.

[crispinb]

Sure, and there's the Extinction Rebellion stuff in the UK. Here in Australia we're kind of complacent/lazy, not often giving a stuff about anything except sports, celebrities, and limitless acquisition of consumer crap. But there is a bit of the school strike stuff happening.

It's all a bit marginal though, isn't it?

People might object to the 'quasi religious' aspect of what you're talking about. I'd make the point though that any culture which acknowledges even minimally the true nature of the living planet that is our home would appear mystical or religious to the deathly bloodless denatured worldview that so ruthlessly holds power now. The latter is either going to give way to something that is a better fit for physical reality, or it will destroy itself by soiling its own nest, largely in hapless ignorance regarding what's at stake.

[solarkraft]

I can only speak out of my bubble here, but I believe the Fridays for Future movement and resistance against the copyright reform really shook the German youth and the whole country as a consequence.

I have a feeling things are actually moving: A few days ago a mid-sized German YouTuber has published a 1 hour long video harshly criticizing the major German party CDU, not for its support of the copyright reform, but largely on economic and ecologic grounds. Everyone, from younger friends to older coworkers are talking about it, sharing how far they have watched it so far, pledging to watch it ...

I don't think it would have spread this rapidly and far (it was at 2.4M views the last time I checked) without the already tense climate.

Maybe this movement is not a "quasi-religion" (though it might become so), but environment-politics are finally a major, widely discussed point.

[ulisesrmzroche]

People have been doing this forever, as in ecological propaganda. Even better, we had monkey-wrenching ecoterrorism.

Some youtuber putting out some random video is marginal at best. Kind of hopeless, honestly.

[crispinb]

I hope you're right. I really have my doubts, but have seen enough life not to be too confident in my predictions.

[inflatableDodo]

>I'd make the point though that any culture which acknowledges even minimally the true nature of the living planet that is our home would appear mystical or religious to the deathly bloodless denatured worldview that so ruthlessly holds power now.

I call it the 'Global Non-Denominational Death-Cult'. Ultimately it favours no particular group, but the tithe is very high.

[crispinb]

Absolutely - death cult is very apt.

[mythrwy]

I'm not happy about it.

Replacing one faith based authoritarian system with another isn't really a leap forward.

[crispinb]

Consumer-fundamentalism is the most dangerous faith-based authoritarian system the world has yet seen.

[Super_Jambo]

Just so long as they don't bio-char the boomer unbelievers. (Burning of course having too high a carbon footprint).