[bitL]

Digital nomads, not remote... Doesn't compute.

Why would any real digital nomad that could spend every month at a different place around the world want to get stuck in Munich in subpar and overpriced housing with only 2-3 months a year of bearable weather and deal with German tax bureaucracy (need to have at least 2 clients in parallel or be forced to register themselves as a single person business with all the increased taxes and no corporate veil), not to mention that it would take years to find just one real German friend for normal social interactions?

[dhkxh]

Do you have an opinion on life in Germany that you would like to share?

[lm28469]

> not to mention that it would take years to find just one real German friend for normal social interactions

That's factually false and incompatible with your previous statement.

> could spend every month at a different place around the world

[bitL]

I don't see any link. You e.g. go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a bunch of friends the moment you walk out of the door of your apartment (figuratively ofc), whereas in Germany it takes years to develop any closer relationship that could be qualified as something more than superficial friendship (i.e. nobody cares, unless you are useful in some way right away), and even those often get abruptly terminated in 15 minutes for whatever silly reason. In other words, for the month or year you spend in Munich, you won't make any friends unless super lucky, it'll be just about work unless you want to surf on a river or watch Bayern in action, etc. and "socialize" that way.

Germany is also the only place I am aware of where two colleagues sharing the same desk at the same company for 20 years still address each other formally in Höflichkeitsform all the time (this is absolutely funny to people from Netherlands).

[lm28469]

> go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a bunch of friends the moment you walk out of the door of your apartment

I lived in California for a while, everyone is seemingly your friend, but really no one is it's just the bro culture (for a lack of a better term).

Smiling and sharing a beer isn't being "friends". Now yeah, if your definition of friendship is socialising with random people in the street avoid Munich.

> Germany is also the only place I am aware of where two colleagues sharing the same desk at the same company for 20 years still address each other formally in Höflichkeitsform all the time

Dude, really ... did you work for the Deutsche bahn in 1982 or something similar ?

If anything my social life is better both in and out of work in Berlin than it was in mountain view / LA. I'm not saying it's bad in other places but Germany isn't as you describe it.

[bitL]

> I lived in California for a while, everyone is seemingly your friend

I agree it's not ideal in California (arguably similar to Germany wrt random quality, but without the perpetually angry faces though with fake smiles exposing whitened teeth). Still, it used to be a bit happier place and there is a large choice of (sub)cultures one might fit in better, and one can focus on real bleeding edge work whereas in Germany foreigners aren't really trusted with working on cool things/hit glass ceiling quickly.

> Dude, really ... did you work for the Deutsche bahn in 1982 or something similar ?

I was told that by some Dutch guy who couldn't believe it, but that's what he experienced (I think he mentioned Siemens or a similar large co).

> If anything my social life is better both in and out of work in Berlin

Berlin is a huge outlier ("Arm aber sexy"), and probably the only cosmopolitan city in Germany that attracts young/creative people (Frankfurt is not for the young). Miami on the other hand is IMO way above Berlin/LA when it comes to social life (unless you are super rich, but then your tastes are completely different).

Also, regarding "friendships", they were either based on how useful you were, or how much dominated you could be, e.g. I remember playing tennis/squash/badminton with German players and the friendships lasted only while I allowed them to win; the moment I decided "* it" and played as good as I could, the "friendships" disappeared quickly. The thing is they do it even to each other unconsciously, so it's pointless to discuss this with them, as there is no awareness.

[badpun]

> You e.g. go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a bunch of friends the moment you walk out of the door of your apartment (figuratively ofc), whereas in Germany it takes years to develop any closer relationship that could be qualified as something more than superficial friendship

Do you consider these people you meet on the streets of Barcelona/Rio to be more than superficial "friends"? For me, a friend is someone who would give me a kidney - that's my definition. Everybody else is just people who are hanging out with me for as long as it mutually more convenient than not.

[bitL]

If you go for a shorter stay in a city as a digital nomad (e.g. 1-6 months), then Barcelona/Rio and similar hold a huge advantage comparing to Munich/Frankfurt/Stuttgart/Hamburg, as you could actually have some great social experiences there in a very short time, but stand little to no chance cracking the "legendary" German "coconut personality". It's highly unlikely you'd meet anyone giving you a kidney anyway, but you'd have a higher chance in a less affluent part of the world where friendships operate out of existential necessity and mutual understanding that next time it could be you in troubles, than in developed countries with increasing shift towards "f*k you, got mine" mentality. It's also amusing to observe German tourists in poor African countries penny-pinching and depriving locals of wage for a service their family relies on just to "save a bit of money".

[badpun]

I dunno, maybe I just don’t see that much value in those transient „great social experiences”. BTW, when it comes to noncommital interactions with people, I like to talk to people older than me, as they have perspectives on live not yet available for me, while the „bar scene” is dominated by similar and uninteresting twenty-somethings with relatively little story to tell.

[bitL]

I am not really into typical bar scene; I tend to throw parties at home where I invite people of various backgrounds/age and have evening of fun (having a music & photo/cinematography studio at home is handy). That is way simpler to do in those two cities I mentioned, where interesting people you know for a day or two want you even to attend their own social events; far more difficult when I tried to do it e.g. in Frankfurt. You get to know some very interesting people as locals tend to show off and bring you to some of their "local stars" and you get to soak culture directly (and on steroids). Still remember one guy bringing me to Bip Bip on Copacabana, introduced me to Alfredinho, and we spent evening discussing Brazilian life while having musicians performing various local songs, and you could soak the atmosphere, what makes Brazilians proud, the cracks and insurmountable issues they were facing daily, observe their blind spots my own culture handles better etc. You also get a crash course on what are advantages and disadvantages of their cultures if you are perceptive enough. With Germans, it's way more difficult and IMO not worth it for short-term stays (maybe Ossies are slightly different in this regard). Swiss & Austrians are even one level more opaque due to one more indirection layer.

[superflit]

@bitL

We miss you BRO.

Please present yourself at any Brazilian restaurant or carnival.

Cheers, Brazilian community

[dewey]

I’m sorry that you obviously had a bad experience but as someone working in Germany I can’t really share your observations.

[thiago_fm]

What he's saying is true. I live in Germany for 4 years, and even though I can definitely speak German, only the foreigners are generally willing to(it's a generalisation!).

Now, when discussing friendships, the picture is even more bleak. I have loads of foreigner friends, but 0.5 german friend.

[stephenr]

How do you have half a German friend?

Is he/she half German, or was he/she involved in some terrible guillotine accident?

[thiago_fm]

Because they aren't a "friend", but more somebody I hang out with.