[computerex]

> Either way I think these are still the best notebooks you can buy.

Five years ago you could make that statement and not have to think twice about it. However now there is too much competition.

1. Dell XPS

2. Matebook X Pro

3. Asus Zenbook Pro

These are just 3 laptops off the top of my head that can compete with the latest and greatest Macbook Pro and come out arguably better. The keyboard, thermal issues and touchbar have really hurt the latest macbook pro. Apple needs to admit they are wrong, ditch the shitty butterfly keyboard and fix the random issues that have started plaguing the Macbook in Apple's quest for thinness.

[pfranz]

I last looked a few years ago and was disappointed at the non-Apple selection (because I was disappointed at the Apple selection, too).

I was looking at 13" models. Comparable PCs were very similar in form factor--non-replacable RAM and a 1tb SSD option (either included or added later myself) took the cost very close to each other. I know Apple laptops have a decent resale value and I'm familiar and comfortable with Apple's warranty and service (others might be great, too, but that'd be an unknown for me).

I needed a webcam for work and having it by the keyboard was a no-go. I know this recently changed and I was very disappointed a brand new Macbook Pro has the exact same camera a 2009 model had. They all had a similarly poor situation with USB-C, too. Either none, 1 for charging and like 1 USB-A port, or only 2-4 USB-C ports.

Looking at the failure rates and support for each brand, a trackpad and keyboard that wasn't as good, having to use Linux (I wasn't planning on using Windows), none of them looked any better.

I wish there was better competition (at least for what I'm looking for) and I wish Apple would fix the things everyone liked about the 2015. Not all of it is thinness...I miss a charging light and battery meter, give better non-touchbar options (I'd like touch ID and more USB-C ports), upgrade your camera for Pete's sake.

[stoppergoo]

I’ve borrowed recent fancy dell XPS 1-2 year old from IT, used and abused by previous employees.

They don’t hold up well at all. Trackpad feels crap compared to my 5 year old mb air, screens suck, keyboard feels meh. They might start out nice but they deteriorate really quickly from my firsthand sampling

The old MacBooks I’ve used from IT, however, still function like original except for the visual wear and tear you see and the ugh of using something all scratched up

[computerex]

Check out ebay, it's filled with used/old xps notebooks in good condition. Your single experience isn't necessarily reality. I agree that nothing competes with apple for the trackpad experience. But the screen on latest XPS beats the Macbook Pro. The XPS also offers a much better keyboard experience compared to the butterfly keyboard. And it's keyboard isn't inherently flawed and susceptible to malfunctioning due to dust.

I agree older macbooks were simply amazing and definitely a cut above the rest. But my point is that compared to the latest macbook pro, the 3 laptops I mentioned are very good competitors. It didn't used to be like this. Apple may have produced very reliable laptops many years ago, but that's no longer the case.

[orloffm]

And all three have coil whine, for example. So I, a technical person, would personally get a MB Air for the same price despite any problems it has. So there is still a huge market and Apple doesn't have much incentives to do so, unfortunately.