[MrLeftHand]

Well, this is where social media and social justice brought us. People are so afraid of each other that they actively try to barricade themselves in real life.

We thought we are opening doors, but we are actually closing them, one by one.

Instead of following a simple 'live and let live' rule, we are now actively hunting for the slightest mistakes and missteps. Humans can't be humans anymore, there is no room for error, or mistake. Even if the court rules in favour of the accused, the branding they can get on social platforms breaks their careers and it might drive them to suicide. Where mobs demand the employer to fire said individual is just insane.

But why are we even surprised, when just telling a tasteless joke counts as an offence nowadays? Where the micro-aggression craze is consuming everybody and some forms of speech are labeled as an act of violence. People are more afraid of saying something offending to someone than having an office shooter marching through the door and gunning down people.

Walking away was never more an appropriate response as it is right now. The reward is minuscule compared to the risk one can take in these situations on a personal level.

[apacheCamel]

I think there are a lot of gives and takes here. People being "afraid" of each other seems a bit dramatic. I think this may be the first time many men in the workplace had to sit back and evaluate the things they say before they say them. This movement has shed light on some of the utterly repulsive behavior people have been getting away with for years, now people just ask you to think twice before telling a joke. If thinking before saying something to a female coworker is that difficult for so many, then I am not really sure what we can do to fix it.

[MrLeftHand]

> People being "afraid" of each other seems a bit dramatic.

In universities and colleges people are afraid voicing their political opinion, or just disagreeing in general with the mainstream. Not just because they would meet lot of counter arguments, but actual physical violence and even getting expelled from school.

Nobody is defending sexual predators and abusive behaviour. But there is a clear bias towards men when it comes to accusations. You don't have to be a predator to say, or do something in a way where the other person will take it as abuse. You don't have to be a man either, but it would make much easier. Everybody can be in this situation. Just fail to identify a transgender person and use a wrong pronoun and you will find yourself in front of HR so fast that you won't have time to say sorry.

If a joke can get you in trouble so much that you even lose your job just because a woman's feelings were hurt, then there is a problem with the system. Is one person's feeling more important than another's life?

This whole situation is a slippery-slope as there will be always someone being offended by something.

I think the key is tolerance. Understanding that everybody makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. And when they apologise we should stop the witch hunt. Also we should embrace differences between sexes and not trying blurring the lines.

[apacheCamel]

>You don't have to be a predator to say, or do something in a way where the other person will take it as abuse.

No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that doesn't make it right.

>Just fail to identify a transgender person and use a wrong pronoun and you will find yourself in front of HR so fast that you won't have time to say sorry.

Out of all the transgender people I know, they will correct you if you fail to use the correct pronoun OR they will let you know first, that way you don't feel awkward. It is up to you then to follow through with it.

I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many people are focusing on them. They don't make up the general populace. Just like how not every guy is out to make crude jokes and be offensive. It always seems like the "not every guy" defensive always comes up but it is unfathomable that not everyone is as easily offended as this vocal minority.

[MrLeftHand]

>No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that doesn't make it right.

Of course it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it a valid reason to drag that person through the dirt. Especially if something was said between the accused and a third person and the accuser was just eavesdropping on the conversation.

>I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many people are focusing on them. They don't make up the general populace. Just like how not every guy is out to make crude jokes and be offensive. It always seems like the "not every guy" defensive always comes up but it is unfathomable that not everyone is as easily offended as this vocal minority.

I agree, we are talking about minorities on both sides. Not every man is an abusive predator and not every woman is going to be a snowflake, who will cry abuse over everything a man says.

But as my first comment stated, the problem is that our current society caters to them. They are the ones who will go great lengths to ruin peoples lives, even when it turns out the accusations were false. They pressure companies into firing people. They harass, threaten, deplatform and dox people without thinking about the damages they cause. And when you work with a person like this (and you might not know this) you will be the target very fast, even for the slightest mistake.

And don't forget the bias towards genders. We talk about biases towards women for countless hours, but when someone brings up the biases towards men, that person is kicked out of the conversation. A level playing field goes both ways.

[apacheCamel]

People get kicked out of the conversation because men still have power. A good example of this would be this exact argument. A woman feels uncomfortable about a man and she is a "whiny snowflake" while a man feels uncomfortable about a woman and the world needs to change.

[MrLeftHand]

Haha, good job trying to take it out of context. Of course I used a woman as analogy, given the current topic.

Anyone can be a snowflake, but still the main goal is, that people shouldn't be over sensitive when it comes to words or mistakes. It's one thing being targeted and one thing hearing something you don't like and throw a tantrum over it, or destroying another human's life.

> because men still have power.

So you're saying men kick out men for pointing out biases towards men? Yeah, sure.

[pwinnski]

The old status quo was horrible for women, but the current situation makes some men uncomfortable, so I guess that's worse?

Or maybe changes are necessary, and the bad old days are still hanging on in the form of people failing to recognize how bad things were and still are for women.

[MrLeftHand]

It's not worse, it is the same but the other way around. Not every man is a sexist pig and not every woman is a saint.

But clearly women have more power over men (in this so called men's world) where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant.

Both sexes have their good and bad side. We shouldn't let our guard down and favour one over the other.

How are things bad in western societies for women? Please give me examples. Where you have female leaders all around the place. If you were referring to the Middle East, I agree women are oppressed as hell over there.

[pwinnski]

> where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant

This is not true. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

[MrLeftHand]

Saying that "this is not true", doesn't make it not true. And repeating it wont make it untrue either. Slow clap for your logic.

Also, if this would be so untrue, we wouldn't have studies like these in the first place.

But please, tell me whom would you believe sooner in a case where a man is being accused of sexual harassment, or even rape? Even if it turns out that the woman was falsely accusing him, the damage is already done. He lost his job, he receives death threats, he's being doxed, etc...

At that stage it really doesn't matter what the outcome of the court rule will be, that man has no life anymore. And what will the accuser get? One year? Maybe two?

It is the same as a father rarely wins a court case over who can take custody of the child. The mother needs to be a drug user and a very bad person for even being considered to be unfit for parenting. And I know, I have friends who lost their kids to their abusive wives.