[ardy42]

> I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent.

The workers are "defrauding" Capital out of greater-than-substance wages. It's bullshit, and they'll try to re-frame in in terms of customers, but that's essentially their view.

[richardknop]

Well, Lyft drivers are supposed to be contractors, it's normal for contractors to set their rate so I don't see how this is fraudulent.

[eropple]

'ardy42 is presenting the part of the argument that Lyft and Uber can't say aloud but almost certainly believe.

Lyft and Uber have a vested interest in making their objection seem "pro-consumer," when they're primarily anti-worker; lower prices to the consumer pumps up the demand curve and Lyft makes more money.

[rayiner]

> Lyft and Uber have a vested interest in making their objection seem "pro-consumer," when they're primarily anti-worker;

Given that Lyft and Uber are losing money, there is no difference between the two. Uber and Lyft are just vehicles (hah) for consumers to make taxi drivers work for less than what taxi drivers used to make. People use Lyft and Uber because it’s cheaper than taxis. Since Uber and Lyft don’t make any money, those savings are coming out of the pockets of drivers.

[eropple]

I mean, fair cop. Though a lot of my Uber and Lyft use is with the endless discounted ride offers I get, which seems to just be a transfer from investors to...well...me.

[rayiner]

Contractors can set rates. They cannot make agreements with other contractors to not accept jobs for below a certain rate.

[klyrs]

Musicians, actors, screenwriters, etc., belong to guilds which do exactly that. And, oh hey, it looks like there's already an independent drivers guild: https://drivingguild.org/

[matz1]

From the perspective of Lyft it is fraudulent.

[Jeff_Brown]

Not exactly. The percentage that Lyft takes is the same, so Lyft actually makes more money from these price-hikes. The ones suffering are the passengers.

[eropple]

This assumes an inelastic demand curve. DCA has other options, such as taxis.

(edited s/elastic/inelastic - I dun goofed. Thanks, Erik!)

[Jeff_Brown]

The existence of other options implies a more elastic supply curve, but implies nothing about demand.

That passengers suffer from a price surge does not assume an inelastic demand, or even a downward-sloping one. If you pay a higher price, you're suffering more, even if somehow it leads you to buy more of that thing.

[eropple]

Eh--"suffering" seems a bit dramatic; as economic transactions go, the up-front price quote by Lyft and Uber makes it pretty transparent and the options available to depart DCA put an upper bound on costs. But I was more referring to how Lyft and Uber make more money off of shorter, cheaper rides. They do make more from longer rides, because of percentages, but my understanding is that volume makes them much more money and that higher prices do depress volume.

[Jeff_Brown]

These are good points.

By "suffering" I just meant "paying (someone, maybe another ride service) for it".

If higher prices depress volume, then some of the very drivers temporarily striking to raise the price end up paying for it, by ending up without a client. If all the drivers gain from it, then the airport demand for their Lyft services in particular (as opposed to demand for other ride companies) would in fact appear to be pretty inelastic. (Both seem plausible to me.)

[ErikVandeWater]

*inelastic

Great point - they could be loosing a lot of passengers to taxis

[conanbatt]

The math has some nuance: an extra dollar for the driver increases his margins a lot more than it does for lyft/uber.

10 rides at 10 bucks or 5 rides at 20 is the same for uber, but way better for the driver (and worse for the consumer).

[bobwaycott]

I believe you mean subsistence, not substance.