[samhain]

>And fuck that, what percentage have already experienced worse than what a male manager might realistically experience from a complaint about his behavior in a 1-1? And don't bother pulling out the "but what if absolutely nothing happened but the woman accused him unfairly and he lost his job and wife and kids and had to live under a bridge until he killed himself??!" unless you have some solid evidence that this happens more often than women get raped by acquaintances.

If the percentage of women that experienced problems were actually really low, and if rape basically didn't happen in the work place, how would that change the way we should have this discussion?

It sounds like you're saying women raped by acquaintances and women having problems in the work place are related. I've always interpreted it as they are acquaintances through friend groups, not necessarily through work. I guess it'd be interesting to see a study of what percentage the acquaintances are known through work explicitly, then maybe that could shed some light on where the tensions come from.

[sfink]

No, and I probably shouldn't have derailed it by mentioning rape. The point is that people react to the possibility of accusation by thinking up the most extreme scenarios. So I'm saying that if you're going to base it on extreme scenarios for men, you need to compare it to extreme scenarios for women -- which happen more often in practice, so can't be faulted for being more extreme.

It would be more useful to not use the extreme scenarios when working through this stuff. They're really bad, but rare, and so not all that relevant.