[lostlogin]

That stuff matters, but of far greater importance is the volume of plastic made. We make too much. It’s not particularly hard to reduce your usage a lot, but I think that’s coming at it from the wrong end. The manufacturers need to be incentivised to do better. Carrot and stick, with the stick getting bigger over time.

[Liquid_Fire]

In Japan everything is overpackaged using ridiculous amounts of plastic (more so than in Europe, for example), and yet people don't litter.

I think it's important to tackle the issue from both ends.

[TeMPOraL]

> and yet people don't litter.

I don't buy it. See CydeWeys's comments around this thread. Also, having lots of people cleaning the streets only makes it look like there's little littering.

> I think it's important to tackle the issue from both ends.

Sure. Thing is, tackling it from the corporate end will be ridiculously more effective than trying to instill new societal norms.

[Reedx]

There's definitely a cultural aspect and it makes a huge difference.

http://japantravelcafe.com/japanese-culture-2/why-the-japane...

The all-around cleanliness of Japanese mega cities comes as culture shock to people coming from other big cities in the world. This tidiness is not due to millions of tax dollars spent on street cleaners and “Let’s-cleanup-our-city” campaigns. It’s not due to effective public works or community service. It’s due to one simple thing: They don’t throw their garbage on the floor.

Ever heard the rule, "pack it in, pack it out"? Or "leave the campground better than you left it"? That means not only do you not litter, you pick up any litter in case a previous person left something.

Teaching people this when they are kids makes a real impact. It has compounding effects over time.

That said, companies should also invest more in biodegradable packaging and using much less packaging generally. Since there will always be some litterbugs and trash that gets caught in the wind or falls off a truck, etc. It should be something we tackle from both the producer and consumer ends.

[TeMPOraL]

> Ever heard the rule, "pack it in, pack it out"?

Yeah, in religious congregations of a particularly controlling near-Christian denomination.

> Or "leave the campground better than you left it"?

Yeah, in movies. I hear that Boy Scouts actually adhere to that rule.

I've only ever seen these two rules applied in a pretty top-down fashion as tight-knit community rules. It's not something I've seen random people invoking in generic situations, so I'm not sure if it scales to the level of a city or a country.

[Reedx]

It's just like any other cultural norm. And Japan shows that it can scale.

Really, it's just a simple common courtesy. And I say this as an atheist non-Boy Scout.

[TeMPOraL]

If it's "just like any other cultural norm", then we still have a problem - as I wrote upthread and elsewhere, cultural norms are extremely difficult to create or change. You're much better off seeking different points of intervention... like making producers of (what becomes) trash involved and primarily responsible for reducing the amount of litter.

[RealityVoid]

But there are obvious and relatively clear buttons that can be pressed in order to have industry at a macro scale stop doing something whereas the same buttons are not so easy an clear to press at a cultural scale.

And, nonetheless, I am of the belief that macro changes have perhaps an order of magnitude more impact that micro changes in this area.

[RobertRoberts]

1. There are countries where littering is "expected" and a normal part of society. (I've seen this culture in the US, they will dump their trash directly in the street)

2. There are countries where littering is both "illegal" and socially "unacceptable". (it's generally shameful to litter)

Which countries will have less litter if corporations are incentivized to change their products or make less stuff?

[RealityVoid]

I am not a US citizen but take offence at your statement that "littering is "expected" and a normal part of society" simply because you've seen someone do it. I am pretty sure you can find examples of littering in even the most strict of cultures. Especially when people believe they can easily get away with it.

[RobertRoberts]

Why do you take offence that I said "littering is expected" in some cultures? Is it untrue?

[RealityVoid]

Because of the implication that if you saw someone belonging to a culture that littered, then it means littering is expected in that culture.