[learc83]

There's some truth to that. There definitely is plenty drudge work that can be done by supervised noivices.

But I think we tend to overestimate how much of our jobs that work entails, and what exactly can be done independently.

A master carpenter can have an apprentice do most of the physical work, but the apprentice is still very much working under the master and relying on them to guide their work.

Good bootcamps can prepare someone to be an apprentice, but we shouldn't pretend 12 weeks is enough to produce a useful employee. And it's not a wholesale replacement for a degree. Good graduates are going to have at least as much practical experience as good bootcamp graduates from internships, hackathons, personal projects, group projects etc... Plus they are going to have significantly more theoretical knowledge.

Even more "professional" jobs like lawyer and capital E Engineer can be learned throughout apprenticeship, so there is value there. But we should stop acting like our profession is just hooking up wires. Other professions aren't nearly as self effacing as we are, it's like we've all internalized the disdain that upper management feels for us because of the power that we hold.

[y4mi]

well, our chief architect at my day job (with a degree) "designed" a system with several points of failure, each of which would kill the whole platform if even one of them failed.

honestly, a degree really doesn't show competence -- nor does experience from what i've seen. Its clearly hard to create a fault tolerant system, but its just as hard to quantify what makes people able to do just that

[learc83]

Yes, incompetent credentialed, experienced Engineers, surgeons, plumbers, programmers etc... exist.

>honestly, a degree really doesn't show competence -- nor does experience from what i've seen. Its clearly hard to create a fault tolerant system, but its just as hard to quantify what makes people able to do just that

Of course, but in experience hiring programmers, computer science grads from reputable programs (either programs I'm aware of, or programs where I thought their curriculum looked decent) are much more likely to be able to create fault tolerant systems than non graduates--assuming approximately equal work experience and age. This levels out at some point, e.g., I don't think the degree is the primary differentiator between 2 talented programmers with 10 years experience.

And there is definitely a very strong correlation between years of experience and the ability to create fault tolerant systems.

[mcguire]

Would it have made a difference if your architect had to take personal, professional, and financial liability for the system?