[ljiljana]

> A few guys working both for Microsoft and Partners were treating me like a cute puppy or telling me they wanted to have sex with me while drunk, but all of it seemed minor and acceptable — I was getting so much in return.

jesus, how is this minor and acceptable? i'm a woman in engineering and I can not even imagine having to deal with something like this. Is it that Marketing is that much different? Or am I just lucky to be working with human beings?

[cbsks]

I’m a man and don’t have direct experience with this, but a few female friends, my wife, and both of my younger sisters have had unwanted sexual experiences at work.

It was a sobering moment when I realized this. I’ve been in the tech industry for over 10 years and I don’t think that anything similar has happened to any of the people I have worked with, but honestly, I have no idea. I’m not sure if I’m oblivious or just lucky to have never worked at anywhere like this. It’s terrifying how common experiences like this are.

[cc81]

I know there are a lot of shitty people out there but one should also note that the workplace is one of the places where people tend to meet their partner. There is a lot of flirting going on in general and some of that by nature will be unwanted.

As an example early in my career I used to work with a woman that was also pretty new and we had some chemistry. Nothing really came out of it but we did spend some time together at work and outside work. But that started as professional attitude -> friendly -> flirty. She was the one that pushed flirty at first and for example after a while when I sent her a message that she forgot an attachment I could get a "Oops, sorry! You will have to spank me!" or something similar.

I'm not trying to defend that 45 year old married guy that drunk walks up to the new 20 something hire and tells her that she has a hot body but at the same time you will have people looking for a partner spending a lot of time together. And if you also add in office parties with alcohol you are bound to also have a few misunderstandings where Guy/Girl thinks that they are hitting it off with other Guy/Girl and wants to try to take to the next level while the other person only thought they were friendly co-workers and wants to stay that way.

[ahelwer]

The worst case scenario for you is you don't get a date. The worst case scenario for them is their work environment is now unsafe because they had to reject you. I encourage you to listen to women's thoughts on this issue, which are almost universally negative toward workplace romance.

[cc81]

Why would it be unsafe for them just because they rejected me? And of course people are not universally against it. Most people seems to be meeting their partner through friends but the second largest group has met their partner at work.

https://www.bustle.com/p/where-people-are-actually-meeting-t...

[SamReidHughes]

Should I ask this of the women I know dating and marrying their coworkers, or the other ones?

[lawnchair_larry]

It’s definitely much more common in sales/marketing. It goes both ways though. As she says, there is a lot of consensual hooking up. Any environment where a significant portion of the folks are willing and reciprocal is going to lead to people testing the waters, so to speak. Especially if you’re getting drunk together.

[ljiljana]

yeah, I always wondered if it's something to do with type of personalities too that typically go into sales/marketing vs. engineering, extroverts vs. introverts type of thing (I am simplifying here greatly). Because I don't even understand how it can come to these situations, when me and my team drink together we just talk about science/tech stuff or something dumb like, does a bagel qualify as a sandwich.

[jldugger]

> jesus, how is this minor and acceptable?

I suspect working in an Eastern Europe satellite office far more regressive than your typical US west coast office. Not that it makes it either minor or acceptable, just... different.

[idlewords]

My cousin works in tech in Poland and I get the impression from her that workplace culture is changing rapidly to a more "international" style where this kind of behavior is not acceptable. Then again, she may not tell me the worst stuff.

I would love to hear from people on the ground about their experience, and whether that's true across other tech workplaces in central and eastern europe.

[dantondwa]

This is my (anecdotal) experience. I work in Poland and I have seen multiple cases of behavior in the workplace that I would have never considered to be acceptable. Here, most often, they're done in public just shrugged upon. And really, being a southern European, it is not that before coming here I was used to the highest standards of gender equality. I just have the impression sexism and cases of sexual harassment at the work place are much more common here.

[myth_drannon]

Yes, it's pretty much very common. You need to attach your photo with a resume as well when applying to a job.

[cperciva]

I've never had to deal with anything like this at work (no surprise there, I run my own company and my only employee is my brother) but in my other life as a classical musician I've experienced sexual harassment from drunk colleagues. On one occasion it was followed up the next day with "I said some things when I was drunk which I probably shouldn't have said... but you know, let me know if you change your mind", which is rather impressive as a non-apology.

I don't think of this as being minor or acceptable, but I don't think it's any more widespread in computing than in other fields either.

[stevenwoo]

I'm only surprised it was happening at a long established company like Microsoft because of the legal ramifications in the United States (it's not totally clear from the blog post where all of these infractions were happening) - IMHO the news stories about Google's dealings with Drummond and Rubin sound worse because they had a lot more power in the organization.

[matz1]

Use it to your advantage, use your sexuality as your weapon.

[airnomad]

I'm not sure what is so wrong with politely telling someone that you want to have sex with her or him. I mean I want many things but that doesn't mean I'll get them.

[soVeryTired]

There's a big difference between "would you like to go out for a drink?' and "I want to have sex with you". One poisons a working relationship, the other doesn't (if done with tact).

Basically, if you wouldn't do it in front of your mom, don't do it to a colleague.

[CydeWeys]

It's not appropriate at work, full stop. HR will have to discipline if not fire you in order to limit their legal liability for this. They will certainly have to fire you if you continue doing it after being asked to stop. They could be on the hooks for a lot of money in a nearly-guaranteed workplace harassment lawsuit if they allow you to persist.

And anyway, if your intent is actually to get laid, then randomly asking people in professional environments is the worst way to do so. It's not even a good tactic in nightclubs, let alone in the workplace. So you're not actually accomplishing your intended goal; you're just harassing your female colleagues.

Good god man, ask people out for drinks first, don't just jump immediately to asking for sex! Did no one teach you how dating or hook-ups work?!

[nitely]

They were drunk, so probably not at work. Not saying it's right or wrong. But probably less wrong.

[CydeWeys]

You could still easily get fired for it, and the dumb shit you do outside of the office to your co-workers will haunt you once you get back to the office. It's not Vegas rules.

[nitely]

Well, maybe if someone record it and put it on social media. Otherwise, I doubt it. Actually, even then I doubt it, I've never seen it happen. From the article, it does not look like they got fired.

[CydeWeys]

I've seen it happen. There are plenty widely publicized instances of it happening, too.

Anyway I said "could", not "would". It depends on how coarse you are with it, how dogged you are in doing so despite being told no, how many different people you do it to, and of course if you're reported.

The overall point is, though, that it's not a good idea.