[chronogram]

There was no reader mode available, but you can get that here in case you also need that accessibility: https://outline.com/bHxccU

“(...) making it harder for our moms and other family members to visit us, or forcing them to visit us via video chat. Instead of making it more expensive for them to accept our phone calls or send us emails. (...)”

This seems soulless. I wonder how that works elsewhere.

[k__]

US prisons always sound like hell.

In Germany, prison time is like being in the hospital without being sick. Mostly boring.

[DoreenMichele]

Germany also does a lot of other things right. The problems in the US with regards to the penal system are largely rooted in the fact that we can't be arsed to treat anyone in this country decently, except maybe a few of the ultra rich.

Everyone else:

Fuck you if you get sick. Not our problem.

Fuck you if you have a kid. Not our problem. Maybe keep it in your pants next time.

Fuck you if don't need and can't afford a mansion. No, we absolutely don't believe that the insane square footage and cost inflation of housing has anything to do with our homeless problem. Why are you bringing up crazy talk like that?

Fuck you if you want an education. We are going to load you up with student loans that will ruin your life for decades to come and that you mostly can't discharge via bankruptcy, unlike most other forms of debt.

Then we say the so-called 99 Percent are irresponsible and ill behaved and not a product of our shitty system that is actively chewing up citizens and spitting them out.

[anovikov]

Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? Someone who's already into prison for a long term is lost anyway, he or she will be criminalized for life. And this is why prison terms should be mostly binary: we should try to either punish someone with something short of that, or if not, lock him up for long enough he either never makes it out of there, or does it old enough so he's not tuu much of a threat anymore.

[js2]

The severity of punishment does little to deter crime. More significant is the certainty of getting caught:

https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx

As well, the purpose of prison should be not only to punish, but also to rehabilitate. I would actually argue rehabilitation should be the primary purpose of prison.

[lioeters]

My goodness, have you ever had a family member, relative, friend or known anyone who has gone to prison? The way you describe the goal of prison sounds worse than slavery, worse than training dogs.

These are human beings, and I consider it utterly uncivilized and inhumane that we would have an institution designed to "be like hell". It's also a typically Christian approach (I mean the church, not the original love commune nor the homeless man who taught to love each other as one self) - to play God, to judge, to create hell and condemn someone to it.

Many of these lost souls are already in hell, of a broken society, a broken home. Putting them in a deeper circle of hell is not any kind of a solution. For the person being punished, it's just a continuation of the same shit way they've been treated. How can we expect any rehabilitation, any healing to take place in a dungeon?

It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization".

[_emacsomancer_]

> It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization".

Though it's only more recently that keeping people in prison for significant lengths of time has been commonplace, or thought of as a way of punishing/rehabilitating.

Present day is darker in some ways than the so-called Dark Ages.

[mercer]

Could you tell us more about that? I'm very curious to know what happened other than long-term imprisonment. Banishment? Death? The stocks?

[_emacsomancer_]

Yes, all of those. As well as fines.

[apalmer]

Honestly, my understanding is prison are supposed to be a deterrent for the free, and a rehabilitation for the imprisoned.

Most prison terms are not 40-60 year virtual life sentences, so most people who go to prison will see the outside again. So while I dont think we should 'take it easy' on prisoners we really shouldn't be trying to do damage that will prevent them from having a chance to function in society.

Besides all that fundamental as a society either the society believes in human rights or it doesnt...

[Lol_80005]

In the US, specifically Georgia, the justice system is almost strictly punative with little to no provision for rehabilitation. Should you get stuck in it, it is designed to punish you to the maximum normal sentence, not to help you in any way. As far as I can tell, it's not designed as a rehabilitation for the imprisioned. Probation and parole similarly act with punative means only. In practice, the probation officers are not your friends and they are not there to help you.

[razakel]

>Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime?

What about the wrongly convicted? I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor.

When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals.

[sokoloff]

> I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor.

All else being equal, I’d always prefer a non-ex-con over an ex-con as a neighbor. I doubt I’m alone in this.

[Fjolsvith]

At least you know where you stand with someone who's been caught before. Every ex-con starts out as a non-ex-con.

[luckylion]

> When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals.

And when you don't treat them like animals, they will still act like animals. Some, of course, not all, just like today not all US-inmates come out acting like animals.

[weeksie]

If you were in a medieval society where punishment was a demonstration of the monarch's power as displayed on the body of an offender, then yeah I guess? Depends on what you want a prison to do. For grisly vengeance, a town square pillory is a pretty good approach.

But if you pretend to care about the larger good of society (but still harbor that mean streak) then you lock people away, assure the population you're doing your best to "reform" them, and choose the most expensive form of torture you can imagine: keeping people alive for the rest of their lives all the while subjecting them to sexual violence from their fellow prisoners.

Has the benefit of fewer angry riots over public execution and torture. More predictable.

If you actually care about people you create a system like they have in Norway.

[wyldfire]

What if it was a neutral experience or even a positive one? I would think detention alone would be a deterrent. Infrequent contact with loved ones, no agency to set your life in the direction you want. I think decreasing recidivism should be a goal and we should be willing to spend money to help make it happen.