[rapsey]

I think due to the US inability to fix fundamental issues with regards to upward mobility, education and a fuck you attitude on the world stage. Anything they do to counter China will only hasten the rise of China and their decline.

[Zarath]

A vast majority of the Chinese international students I met in college were:

Already incredibly wealthy (if you think inequality is bad in the US, you should see Shanghai or other parts of China) and had no intentions of staying in the US and were just here for education. It was extremely common to see Chinese students driving around in BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, and very often nicer cars, and it became something of a stereotype with most of the people I knew. Not to mention my university was taxpayer funded.

[paxys]

Ever since the recession most states have cut funding for public universities down to nothing, so they have to rely on rich international students paying exorbitant tuition in order to subsidize costs. It's pretty likely that it was those students and not taxpayers that were funding your education.

[thaumasiotes]

> Not to mention my university was taxpayer funded.

Assuming it was a US university, the Chinese students were paying a special extra-high tuition for international students.

[lkCbdBclE]

I think their point was that it was a public university. At least in my experience, you'll see less (they still exist) obviously wealthy students. It makes the wealthy international students more jarring/juxtaposed.

[krageon]

Back when I actually bothered to investigate the matter (more than ten years ago), there were no universities that were taxpayer funded in the way that everyone expects when you say that (no to low tuition). Has that changed?

[godzillabrennus]

The data shows that the wealthy Chinese are fleeing and the USA is gaining.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/millionai...

[rapsey]

Why is that relevant? The US has always been a great place to live in if you are rich.

[EchoAce]

While that's vacuously true on account of the fact that being rich is fundamentally good no matter where you are, I'd argue that China is even better to live in if you're rich.

[rapsey]

Rich in the US means best healthcare in the world, best education and eniterely risk free from political persecution.

[NicoJuicy]

I don't know, but health care is at least as good in Europe, if not better.

I'm pretty sure some huge companies have important advantages by portraying that the expensive one of the US is better. But I highly doubt it.

And for the really rare cases for rich person's, people fly where the best specialist is.

[rapsey]

Some places, definitely not public healthcare.

[paxys]

Not if you value political freedom

[taurath]

Any examples of rich people doing things in the US that’d be persecuted in China? Donating to the Libertarian party perhaps? Most of the time I’d imagine the rich are aligned with the status quo.

[rapsey]

Avoiding political persecution (at least what I meant by it) is more about kissing the right asses and not stepping on the wrong persons toes. Rich in the US does not mean living in a minefield.

[paxys]

Participating in a religion, criticizing the communist party, speaking out about forbidden topics and more. Mostly though the system will take you down for not paying enough bribes or pissing off the wrong officials.

[zerr]

No. You never know when the commie nomenclature decides you're the enemy of the state, strips you out of your wealth and sends the execution bus at your front door.

[sonnyblarney]

" I'd argue that China is even better to live in if you're rich."

? If you're rich in the US, you stay rich as long as you keep your money.

In China, your RMB is worth what the Party says it's worth, and you can be arbitrarily destroyed for political reasons.

Excepting issues like 'cheap labour' - on most other secular issues, America is a better place to be rich, once you're rich. (ie notwithstanding non culturally secular issues like the fact most people generally prefer their home country for obvious reasons)

[rapsey]

Currency manipulation is what every central bank does. It's their job. The Chinese are not particularly special in this regard.

[sonnyblarney]

Yes, they absolutely are.

The RMB is a fictitious currency because a) the central bank is politically controlled b) there are currency controls c) lending is driven by the state and d) it's opaque.

The Chinese government has magical monetary policy powers, they can do anything.

The US has a fair bit of transparency, no political control and no capital controls. That adds up to a fairly 'fair market value' for USD. They can get away with shenanigans, but not remotely like China.

The Euro is the strongest of the big currencies, mostly by virtue of the fact many countries share a currency, and they are all afraid the other would print money and play games ... so in effect you get super strict rules.

Euros are backed by assets according to rules. There's some sneakyness, but it's all papered over with rules.

The USD is backed by the US gov, and since 2007 a lot of real estate. Also, because it's a seigneurage currency, it's kind of backed by the fact everyone around the world uses it.

The RMB is just whatever the party wants it to be worth.

China wants everyone to respect the RMB, they want to make more international transactions etc. but for that the rest of the world needs to see it's reliable. But in order for that, China has to play by a set of rules and not play harry potter with money. But they want to keep the magic wand (it's rational for them to want that power), so they will have a hard time making RMB go much further than their immediate periphery. Nobody wants to hold RMB.

[ETHisso2017]

Indeed, it is not hard to see this reverse brain drain as a reflection of relative under-representation of East Asians in tech management.

[sonnyblarney]

The opposite: 'mobility' is the fundamental reason people leave their home country (China) to have a significantly better standard of living - which they do have.

Mobility problems are mostly for Americans, not for ex-pats.

Geopolitics is a little important, but for most people, it's about their job, their opportunity.

It's troublesome because 99% of US companies and Chinese ex-pats just want to do work and are getting caught up in geopolitics.

But to be fair: this is a real problem. Espionage, influence, interference is a thing. Here in Canada, the Chinese gov. is directly influential in student activities etc. - at Ryerson in Toronto, a young Tibetan woman was elected head of the student union and it met with fierce and organized resistance from Chinese students, supported by tentacles of the state. As a small example.

That said it'd be nice if there were better ways past this problem, because it's not a problem for most of us!