[lmm]

> Self-defense. Know two other guys who have possibly had their lives (or at any rate, probably hospital visits) saved in street fights and muggings. There are also countless juniors who have been able to fend off bullies.

Some martial arts have some application to self-defense, but I don't think that's the real distinction - people don't seem to treat e.g. Naginata as a less serious martial art even though you'd never use it in practice. And many non-martial-art sports (I mentioned cycling in a parallel thread) are treated with the same seriousness.

> It's also exercise, which has extensive and proven benefits. It also has huge benefits in terms of bone strength and density.

Aren't those equally true of this hobbyhorse-dressage?

[wemdyjreichert]

> Some martial arts have some application to self-defense, but I don't think that's the real distinction

Many of the martial artists whom I know began training for purposes of self-defense. Some began as adults, and some were placed in training by their parents after being bullied.

> cycling

That's totally out of the scope of this conversation; I made no claims as to the seriousness with which cycling ought to be treated. I think most sports are given too much credence.

>> It's also exercise

> Aren't those equally true of this hobbyhorse-dressage?

No, not from the gif of a "competition" at the top of the article. It does not appear to contain any serious exertion.

Most sports involve pushing yourself physically. This does not involve such exertion and improvement. If kids want to do it, that's fine (all though still weird as all getout). But I don't think them saying to not "say they are playing" because it "strips away what we've made" is really reasonable. Kids are playing dress-up; it's fine to remind them it's just dress-up. And it's ridiculous to compare it to real sports.

[lmm]

> Many of the martial artists whom I know began training for purposes of self-defense. Some began as adults, and some were placed in training by their parents after being bullied.

There's a difference between saying that something helps with with being bullied (many disciplines achieve that by offering a structured environment, a framework to develop experience, consciousness over one's body, controlled confrontation, and a controlled experience of pain; I personally found taking up fencing helped me a lot) and saying it's a practical self-defense technique.

> That's totally out of the scope of this conversation; I made no claims as to the seriousness with which cycling ought to be treated. I think most sports are given too much credence.

Very few people regard martial arts as "more serious" than other sports. You dodged my example of naginata; do you consider martial arts that can't be used for practical self defense to be "less serious"?

> Most sports involve pushing yourself physically. This does not involve such exertion and improvement.

I wouldn't be so sure - maintaining precise control over one's body can involve a lot of physical effort. Often making something look effortless is part of a sport's aesthetic, but actually involves a lot of hidden effort to achieve. Consider figure skating or gymnastics, or indeed "real" dressage.