[tells]

> You don't want your ER nurse to be smug about how smart they are, while they do shoddy work with fad tools and halfwitted cargo cult processes.

Unfortunately, this may already be the case with people who graduate from medical assistant and physician assistant schools. From what I hear from doctors is that the quality of these graduates are sub-par. They are usually confident in their medical knowledge while repeatedly failing to show the conscientiousness needed to practice medicine without harm.

[Mbioguy]

Wow, lots to unpack here. First off, MAs are not remotely comparable to PAs or physicians. MAs typically earn a certificate, and salary is 20-30k. They are typically office or clerical workers with a medical support role. They are not diagnosticians or prescribers, like physicians, PAs, or NPs are. So talk of MAs 'practicing medicine' is weird, they don't, that's not the job role. We need them, they aren't well paid... nice work punching down there mate.

Frankly, this comment just sounds like you have an axe to grind with PAs. (Hence conflating MAs with PAs.)

PA is a Master's degree. They diagnose, treat, and prescribe. Unlike MDs, who are board-certified independent practitioners, PAs are not trained to work independently but as part of a team. In some cases that means they function as physician extenders, freeing up physicians to focus on more complicated cases. In other areas they focus on tasks delegated to them, for example central lines or other procedures, wound care. Some are used as First Assists in surgery, others are used for pre and postsurgical care, which helps surgeons do more surgeries. In any case, while the roles for physicians and PAs are much more similar, the condescension remains in your comment.

Punching down on MAs is inconceivably poor form. Punching down on PAs is still bad. Conflating the two gives away your game. You suggest harm... have any evidence to back this up?

Hint: you won't find any. There aren't a ton of studies, and quality could be better, but mid-levels (NPs and PAs) who stay within their roles have comparable outcomes to physician colleagues. How can this be, given the difference in training time? Easy. The roles are different. The subset of pts managed by PAs/NPs is different than MDs, because professionals consult and transfer care when appropriate. It's no different than a family practitioner or hospitalist consulting specialists. Nobody does everything, healthcare is a team effort.

Trash talking other professions, especially without evidence, is unprofessional.

[threatofrain]

Your entire critique depends on whether the person you're responding to can't differentiate MA from PA. This person is reporting that doctors have told him that MA and PA's somehow aren't being well trained, and they're also reporting a sense of smugness.

So do you think this person is lying or not? Did these conversations in fact take place? That's the more basic question to ask first.

[gxespino]

You hear this from doctors because they are the ones who are smug and most likely feel their professions are threatened.

[SiempreViernes]

To be more fair, you hear "these shoddy youths!" from the incumbents in almost all fields. I guess this is mainly from the fact that newcomers always lack experience.

[lmm]

Or because incumbents are always threatened by newcomers.