[indigo945]

What exactly are some of the great things Western mining companies are doing for poor countries? The only thing that I'm aware of which might be construed as positive is that through exfiltrating resources from the country and channeling the profits of this venture into the pockets of Western shareholders, they lift the country of its resource curse, by lifting it of its resources. However, this is neither ethically nor, in the short and medium term, practically, actually a good thing. And besides that, there just isn't much: mining ventures do not require much infrastructure, which will therefore not see much improvement from those investments, and the wages paid to local workers are laughable compared to the revenue mining generates, to the point where getting that revenue into the pockets of local warlord kleptocrats might actually be better, because if nothing else, at least their lavish lifestyle drives demand and powers the local economy.

Or is there a different force at play that I'm not seeing?

[danieltillett]

I think you have a misinformed understanding about the current legal and ethical standards that public western mining companies operate under in Africa. They pay a huge amount of taxes and royalities and many have the host government as a major shareholder (10-15%). It is not western mining companies that are smuggling gold out to the UAE.

Serious mines need an amazing amount of infrustructure and capital - hundreds of millions dollars is typical and often much more. A typical mine employs thousand of locals in what are middle class or better paying jobs - the western run mines are all mechanised - you don't pay $5 day to some local and put them in charge of a $200,000 truck.

Yes the host governments often waste or steal the money, but even with this a huge amount of good is still done. It is the areas of Africa that are not being "exploited" by the West that are the poorest.

The local companies and companies from countries outside the West are still a problem. We should be supporting the good companies and driving out the bad. Unfortunately few investors are willing to do this.

[saiya-jin]

What you describe is some sort of lesser evil - I still fail to see the massive positive force. Modus operandi for centuries has been to exploit the hell out of any country, be it Africa, Indonesia or South America and give nothing and take everything.

Only if government is not utterly corrupt and doesn't pocket nearly 100% of income from the mine can there be some lasting benefits for the country. Its just a continuation of theft and exploitation that made Europe so rich for last few hundreds of years, albeit with 21st century 'we care' face. Travel a bit in countries that were raped like this, ie Potosi in Bolivia to get full picture of where this sort of business came from.

So while few pocket some average income while the mine lasts, country is stripped blank of its most precious resources... and that is supposed to be something positive? I have somewhat higher moral standards than this to consider these kind of operations at least slightly moral and justifiable.

[danieltillett]

Every decision in the real world is a choice of the lesser evil. Investing in companies that are doing the right thing is the way to make a difference to world.

Instead of pulling down those companies that are making an actually real difference to the people in Africa, what is your solution?