[Leptosiphon]

I don't know how reliable a source "DEBKAfile" is, but just in general, it makes me very uncomfortable that civilian scientists may possibly now be considered legitimate targets for assassination or kidnapping by the US, Israel or others.

[natrius]

If you're a scientist working on weapons systems (which is a debatable claim in this instance), you're not a civilian.

[Leptosiphon]

According to Iran, scientists aren't working on a weapons system, they are part of a civilian program to produce nuclear power plants. Following your logic, the people who competed in the DARPA grand challenge are not civilians and are legitimate targets for assassination by another world power.

[natrius]

DARPA funds the Grand Challenge so the technology can eventually be used to defend the country. I would not consider killing scientists involved in the competition to be a war crime; it would just be a garden variety act of war. I know little about the international law involved in such distinctions, but it makes logical sense to me.

In my estimation, attacking DARPA-funded scientists is more likely to be "okay" than attacking the Iranian scientists, because the latter may not actually have any involvement in weapons development if Iran is telling the truth.

[berntb]

>>if Iran is telling the truth

is there anything at all supporting the Iranian version?

We know that USA and lots of other countries don't believe Iran, are really worried and put lots of resources into stopping the program. We also know that Iran has had suspicious behavior and actively supports terrorism. And so on.

The alternative would be an US conspiracy, which they obviously would have failed to keep quit about... :-)

[nikster]

The King of of the UAE even begged the US to bomb Iran...

Obviously Iran wants the bomb, and given the crazy guy in charge it should make anyone feel _very_ uncomfortable. The last time they pursued this the Israelis at some point bombed their reactor.

Why would Iran risk an outright attack just to build nuclear power plants? Doesn't make sense on any level. A nuke on the other hand is a guarantee that nobody is going to attack your country, ever, again. Invaluable.

[_djo_]

The last time they pursued this the Israelis at some point bombed their reactor.

That was Iraq, at Osirak.

But your larger point is correct. Nobody in foreign policy circles takes Iran's claims about having only a peaceful nuclear program seriously. Especially not when two of the main facilities were built in secret before being uncovered by dissidents and Western intelligence agencies. No country pursuing a purely peaceful nuclear program builds enrichment facilities in secret.

[sliverstorm]

What are you talking about, 'legitimate targets'? There are no rules who they are allowed to attack and not allowed to attack. 'They' are capable of targeting any man in this country they like. This is why you either make friends with other countries or carry the biggest stick. We're already talking acts of war, it's not like you can increase the backlash any further than a declaration of war.

I think you're forgetting that war is not a board game with a friendly set of rules everyone has implicitly agreed to follow.

[natrius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention

[sliverstorm]

If we or someone else who signed that is the one making a strike, sure. But it won't always be.

It could even be a country that signed it, but is aiming for complete dominance, and throws out the rules because they are already at war with the rest of the world anyway.

[natrius]

Correct, but you definitely can "increase the backlash further than a declaration of war."

[mnemonicsloth]

> civilian program to produce nuclear power plants

Desperately needed in a country with the world's third-largest oil reserves.

[radicaldreamer]

They have hardly any refining capacity to actually use those reserves.

There's no doubt though that they feel having nuclear weapons will be a deterrent after how close they came to having their government wiped out by Cheney et. al.

[YooLi]

They are trying to build _a_ bomb at this point. They are no where near the point they can deter the US from meddling. One bomb, however, will deter those with no bombs.

[pyre]

They should know better than anyone what the state of their reserves are. It would be a pity for them to squander the wealth that comes from selling their oil without having created any lasting infrastructure.

[chopsueyar]

Yeah, I wonder what that would be like.

[cma]

I don't disagree with you, but you can take it further: what if someone is growing potatoes, some of which go to feed weapons systems (troops)?

[jaekwon]

that would make you a potato farmer.

[natrius]

I don't know what international law says, but I'd destroy the crops and leave the farmer alone.

[cma]

Didn't work so well the last time we tried it: http://viartis.net/parkinsons.disease/images/AgentOrange.jpg

[pmorici]

So you think that, for example, a University prof. who gets grants and funding from a countries defense department is a legitimate target?

[natrius]

Yes. Attacking such a professor would be an act of war, but it wouldn't be particularly reprehensible as far as acts of war go.

[metamemetics]

Anyone engaged in military\defense contracting is a legitimate target of war under the Geneva convention.

[nikster]

Yeah. If you working on a nuke for Iran, you know you're a target for the Mossad (at the very least). Whether you call yourself a civilian or a soldier doesn't matter.

[something]

how many of those scientists realize that?

[sliverstorm]

I imagine the head of cybersecurity for Iran's nuclear systems was aware that he was the head of cybersecurity for Iran's nuclear systems.

[smokeyj]

Nuclear energy isn't only for weapons, that's just how the USA uses is.