| > This is just a plain criticism of capitalism in general. Does this logic apply to everything else? Like food? Housing? In practice we have a great example with public education: an expensive, unequal base level that americans avoid if they have the money to. The reason public education is bad is because Americans have decided to hate their government (which is an extension of themselves) and not invest in services in the public interest. It's not inherent to the system, it's a product of what you put into it: apathy and distrust. The same just isn't true in other countries. In your criticism of public education you actually make a case for two-tier healthcare: I'd rather have a base level of schooling I can buy my way to "better quality" than leave anyone who can't afford private school out on the street with no education. Not everything needs a profit motive. Some things, the ones that lay a foundation for a free and fair society, such as police, fire, roads, railways, water, education and health, should be provided. This allows individuals to rise to the level of their abilities and merits without relying on the largesse of their family. This is the meritocratic American dream, in a lot of ways. There are plenty -- and I do mean plenty of ways to make money out there, it's not like socializing this eliminates capitalism. If anything, it bolsters it by allowing more people to pursue entrepreneurship. > Its true that businesses would love not to manage training people about healthcare, but then the government will have to do it and that won't come cheap. It is cheaper in every other country, and there's no reason it wouldn't be cheaper here. Analysis in a Koch-backed study showed it would be +/- 10% (either 10% cheaper or 10% more expensive depending on ability to control costs while covering 12% more people) -- so less per capita no matter what. [1] > Whatever claims are not paid, its money leftover for spending in whatever initiative the government wants. That's not how governments work, that's how private companies work. Private companies take left over money and distribute it to their shareholders. Whenever a private insurer denies a claim someone makes money. Governments distribute it back to the people. Their goal is not to make money, to have money left over, it's to provide service. If they can do it for less, they'll lower their budget. Not that it matters, single payer setting prices works just fine in Canada. You know that price transparency everyone in America is demanding? Here's Ontario's entire list of prices: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/ohip/sob/physser... PET scan? That's $237.50 (vs. $5000 in the US). > And if it doesn't, whats the way out? Voting? > Maybe thats your point, but I don't want in on that. I dont want the government deciding for me. By voting you decide. That's government. It's an extension of the people's will. You are in fact deciding. I'm sorry you feel like that doesn't work here, and that in fact you'd rather a faceless, un-accountable corporation with an interest in making a profit decide than a transparent, public good service you can control the leadership of. The government "decides" for you in so many other ways, it's ridiculous to draw the line here but even if you were to, offering a public plan strictly increases your options. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/10/upshot/medica... |
Thats not going to change with socialized medicine. So shouldn't you be against it? Because americans still "hate government" and if that breaks government programs, it will break socialized medicine as well.
> In your criticism of public education you actually make a case for two-tier healthcare
US already has this. Namely Medicaid.
> It is cheaper in every other country,
We have had this argument before. Making it socialized will not make it cheaper, it will fundamentally change the way its funded. I haven't seen the details of the Koch study, but there are things that won't change: the shortage of doctors, the cost of pharma, the amount of hospitals, malpractice insurance costs etc. The cost of administration is exaggerated because that administration also provides value: it checks expenditures, medical reasearch etc.
In any case, again, if gov will be so efficient, it can start with a public option and see how that goes.
> By voting you decide. That's government.
I dont want to vote to see if I can see the doctor I want to see or pick the service I want to use. If you wish to vote your treatments go your own way, and you don't need me to achieve that. Advocate for a public option you can opt-in, and if it is truly better and cheaper and all that, now we know. I believe it will be worse and more expensive and I don't want to be locked in to that.
> The government "decides" for you in so many other ways,
That doesn't make me feel any better.