[quanticle]

>College isn't about me getting a job. It's about me becoming a better person. Liberal arts is geared towards making me more diverse and thoughtful than I would be otherwise. It's working.

I'd really, really like to agree with you. Unfortunately, for myself and a lot of others, college is about getting a job. Why did I go to school and get a computer science degree? All of the employers in my area simply expected a B.Sc. in Computer Science or something related before they'd even consider you as a programmer.

I actually disliked a lot of my computer science curriculum -- I felt that it shortchanged the actual craft of coding and working in teams to build large systems, but I had to do what I had to do in order to get the job I wanted.

EDIT: I also believe that the necessity of liberal education in college is declining as more information becomes more widely available. Yeah, when you had to go to the university library to look up philosophy and history, liberal arts courses were necessary to make someone a well-rounded person. Today, however, there is such a rich variety of liberal education available for free on the Internet that one can make themselves well rounded without stepping foot inside a formal educational setting.

[rorymarinich]

> I'd really, really like to agree with you. Unfortunately, for myself and a lot of others, college is about getting a job. Why did I go to school and get a computer science degree? All of the employers in my area simply expected a B.Sc. in Computer Science or something related before they'd even consider you as a programmer.

It's hard for me to have this conversation with you, because I can't imagine living my life with the end goal of simply finding employment. I'm incapable of going a day without creating something or adjusting something or trying to somehow change myself. So the only jobs I want are the ones that let me make things. And there are always jobs like that available, and they're really easy to find, too: You just hunt down other people that are making things and you ask them what they want you to make.

But I'm still surprised that people have trouble applying for jobs even as programmers. Isn't it relatively easy? You just spend some time making really flashy things, real show-off-y stuff that demonstrates you're more than competent at what you're doing. Write a cocky cover letter that says "I didn't go to college but I'm better at what I'm doing than most college graduates", even if you're not, and then let your work speak for itself. I'm biased also because the year I spent learning Computer Sciences was the easiest year of classes I ever took. I still don't fully grasp why the major seems so demanding for so many students when a lot of the work they have you do is fairly trivial.

> EDIT: I also believe that the necessity of liberal education in college is declining as more information becomes more widely available. Yeah, when you had to go to the university library to look up philosophy and history, liberal arts courses were necessary to make someone a well-rounded person. Today, however, there is such a rich variety of liberal education available for free on the Internet that one can make themselves well rounded without stepping foot inside a formal educational setting.

One can convince himself of his well-roundedness. But there's a difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge. Sort of like the parent post to my original one said about not suspecting most liberal arts college students of being willing to put in an effort. I too am suspicious of college students reading "liberal arts subjects" on the Internet and bothering to apply them in any practical way, to test out their ideas for their own.

Having experienced, wise professors guide you through courses of study is a luxury we don't have yet on the Internet.

[quanticle]

>It's hard for me to have this conversation with you, because I can't imagine living my life with the end goal of simply finding employment. I'm incapable of going a day without creating something or adjusting something or trying to somehow change myself. So the only jobs I want are the ones that let me make things. And there are always jobs like that available, and they're really easy to find, too: You just hunt down other people that are making things and you ask them what they want you to make.

It really depends on where you are and what sort of contacts you have. Yeah, if you already know a lot of people who are into programming or if you're in an area where there are lots of people making things, then you can let your work speak for itself. Unfortunately, I'm not in one of those areas. Here in the Midwest, if you don't have the degree, your resume gets placed directly in the circular file.

One of my friends is a better programmer than I am, but due to family circumstances he couldn't finish his Computer Science degree. He's stuck in a relatively dead end sysadmin job, while I'm moving ahead in the programming world. He's doing his best to finish his degree, but it'll be a couple of years before he can do so, and he'll be that much further behind when finally does graduate.

You may not be able to imagine a life with the end goal of simply finding employment. However, if you ended up in a situation where you were unemployed (or worse, unemployable) for a long period of time, then you would start looking for employment just for the sake of having employment. Its nice that its unlikely for you, but it is certainly a situation that many of us have to deal with every day.

>Having experienced, wise professors guide you through courses of study is a luxury we don't have yet on the Internet.

That certainly is true. On the Internet you don't have the challenge of defending your ideas against someone who's studied the topic for most of their lifetime.