[manigandham]

Forced to close? Why? That's a terrible authoritarian idea.

The only solution is more competition, not less. Trying to limit who can do what has only ever led to worse outcomes. There's nothing stopping a non-profit group from creating maps today if they wanted to.

[dasil003]

Authoritarianism is not a solution, but neither is the magic of the free market when the dynamic is increasingly consolidated wealth looking for ever faster returns due to the technology cycle.

The idea that a non-profit could compete in the current economic and cultural climate is laughable. Some social change is required, and government for all its flaws is the logical place for such change to actually gain some teeth.

[manigandham]

The idea that a non-profit must compete is what's laughable. This service is expensive. Who's going to pay for it? Taxes? Subscriptions? Ads again?

The free market is exactly what allows anyone to compete, and Apple and Microsoft already do so, along with dozens of industrial providers.

[dasil003]

Non-profits can't afford the engineers to make a maps service work well at scale. Sure, Google is entering the revenue extraction phase of their existence, so it opens the door to competitors, but who will fill that gap? The non-profit version will be shitty compared to the next VC-funded startup paying engineers $200-$500k each to build a world-changing maps service, which they give away for free in order to grab marketshare, then they crank up the price and the cycle repeats. The low barrier to entry when the web disrupted Microsoft was an anomaly, even despite increased open source tooling, VC boom times have sucked the oxygen out of the room for non-profits and bootstrappers trying to build great tech products.

[coldtea]

>Forced to close? Why? That's a terrible authoritarian idea.

I don't believe "authoritarian" applies to companies. If anything corporatism is authoritarian.

[manigandham]

What exactly does "force to close" mean and how does it work in a free-market capitalist society then?

If there are valid regulations to follow then sure but that's not what the parent comment seems to be suggesting.

[coldtea]

>What exactly does "force to close" mean and how does it work in a free-market capitalist society then?

There's no "free-market capitalist society". Just a really-existing capitalist society (like "really-existing socialism" which touted one set of values, but practiced another), that sells to people the lie that markets are (and can be) free, when they aren't in most ways that matters.

[manigandham]

This is a pedantic dead-end. The market is free enough. Regulation is not a problem, as already stated, provided the legislature is looking out for citizens and making the proper laws.

None of that has to do with Google being "forced to close" its Maps just because you don't like ads.

[CamperBob2]

"Authoritarian" is when you're the one pointing guns at people (and companies) in order to make them do what you say is best.

[coldtea]

Not really. A society can democratically decide to not have companies do this or that.

Except if you think e.g. forbidding them from using child labor or from not hiring women/blacks etc. are authoritarian too, then you already agree that a society can impose some laws (onto companies), and them to not be authoritarian.

If you agree to the above, then now the main difference is that you think the above examples are "fair" and "ok", whereas the other proposal is not. But that's a matter of opinion, not some objective truth.

[CamperBob2]

A society can democratically decide to not have companies do this or that.

The only power they (we) have to enforce such policies is to stick a gun in someone's back. It's true that some matters call for the initiation of violence to maintain a greater societal good. You've cited some worthwhile examples but this isn't one of them.

If you agree to the above, then now the main difference is that you think the above examples are "fair" and "ok", whereas the other proposal is not. But that's a matter of opinion, not some objective truth.

Our Constitution lies somewhere in the middle between opinion and objective truth. It carries more weight than the former (those guns again) and less than the latter. It arguably doesn't provide the legal tools needed to force Internet search engines and map providers to work on a nonprofit basis.

There are other countries whose founding documents don't include similar constraints. Fortunately, nobody will shoot you for trying to leave this one.

[soulofmischief]

Forced to close by economic forces, not legislative or political pressure. That isn't terrible at all, that's the basis of the capitalist, quasi-competitive economy which these companies champion so much. The most viable service wins. Nothing authoritarian about that.

> There's nothing stopping a non-profit group from creating maps today if they wanted to.

Apple and Google probably feel very differently. We've already seen them fight it out, wait till they join together to start keeping their boots on the up and comers.

In the end I don't give a rat's ass about their profit line and I put advancement of Earth and its people as my top priority.

[manigandham]

"Forced to close by economic forces" is not what the other poster was saying. Competition is good. And yes, Apple and Google will put up a fight because that's how competition works.

>> I put advancement of Earth and its people as my top priority.

Great. Are you working on a mapping service?

[soulofmischief]

If a government or government-sanctioned non-profit receives enough tax credits and funding to create a viable alternative to Google Maps which puts the service out of business, it's still just market competition. We do this all of the time with banks, large American industries, oil companies, etc. You can't have one and turn away the other.

> Great. Are you working on a mapping service?

That's fallacious. I don't have a giant pile of money sitting around. But I support initiatives like OpenStreetMap even if I see room for improvement.

[manigandham]

Again, that's not what the other poster meant by "forced to close". They specifically said maps shouldn't be provided by a for-profit company. That's the opposite of competition.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with because we all want more options, and we already have several from Apple, Microsoft and others. I definitely don't want my taxes being spent on another poorly executed govt project though.

>> I don't have a giant pile of money sitting around.

Maybe you should care about profit then because that's why Google Maps exists.

[soulofmischief]

Google Maps exists because someone at Google had a very noble idea and since then Google has decided it likes service lock-in. It's not a bad product in any form.

But I don't want ads in my map software any more than I want ads in my travel atlases.