[dmitriid]

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US.

I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this:

- The US: $999

- The EU: €999

- Sweden: 9900 SEK

Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive.

My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was cheaper to fly to New York, buy the Mac, and fly back than to buy one in Sweden. And you would still have money left over.

[Kurtz79]

"That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency."

It makes no sense comparing US and EU prices directly, as the former are always shown without VAT (which varies state from state), and in the latter the VAT is included (which is specific to each country).

Also, price will fluctuate even across EU countries, on account of different VAT taxes in the individual member states, so that Apple "keeps the same digits" it is simply not true, as a rule:

iPhone X 64GB USA(no VAT): 999$ https://www.apple.com/us_kiosk_5000012/shop/buy-iphone/iphon...

iPhone X 64GB Italy (VAT 22%): 1189€ https://www.apple.com/it/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xs

iPhone X 64GB Spain (VAT 21%): 1159€ https://www.apple.com/es/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xs

The only way to compare them is to remove VAT, for example in the case of Italy:

1189/(1+0.22)= 974€ -->> 1100$ (current exchange rate).

So, there is about 10% difference, which could be (partly) accounted for due to the different warranty requirements in EU.

EDIT: Fixed math

[simonh]

Nice analysis. If you factor in local sales taxes in the US, that 10% difference shrinks or even disappears pretty fast.

I'm afraid 'Apple charges more abroad' is largely a fallacy. Where there is a difference, it's almost always pretty clearly due to local taxes or costs of doing business. This used to really piss off Steve J[1] because he saw it as terribly unfair.

[1] https://www.imore.com/steve-jobs-international-ipad-pricing-...

[zapita]

> If you factor in local sales taxes in the US, that 10% difference shrinks or even disappears pretty fast.

If you factor in sales tax on the US side, you also have to factor in VAT on the EU side, since they are equivalent.

So that 10% difference is correct.

[mortehu]

European countries often have a minimum 5 year warranty on electronics sold to consumers, while Apple's extended warranty costs more than 10% for just two years, so that's got to be an important factor too. AppleCare is probably better than what's required by law in Europe though.

[foepys]

Where does law say to give 5 years warranty? I'm only aware of 2 years.

[Amezarak]

State sales tax ranges from 0-7%, with a few localities adding a few percentage points in top of it.

VAT ranges from 17% to 27%.

[xxs]

Sweden is still in the EU, it has higher VAT than (say) Germany as well. Also iphone x is ~865 on amazon.de[0]. You can order with within the EU (see the 1st sense again), the delivery would be around ~10€, but the price is to be a bit higher due to VAT diff. Side benefit of amazon is that you will never need to deal with apple repair services as you can send the goods back to amazon.

US price has no sale tax (which varies per state and county)

To sum up: if you find the goods at any retailer in the EU, buy them online and pay for the delivery - for light products (electronics), the shipment costs are low when not 'free'.

[0]:https://www.amazon.de/Apple-iPhone-X-64GB-Space-Grau/dp/B075...

[xorcist]

Note that within the EU, as soon as you sell over a certain limit to a member country you have to charge VAT in the destination country. So large retailers will list prices with their respective VAT included and then re-calculate prices when you get to the payment stage (when they know which country you order from).

[xxs]

Sure, hence that part in my reply and mentioning higher VAT of Sweden. The amounts needed to apply per country VAT are rather low as well (like 35k, iirc).

>>but the price is to be a bit higher due to VAT diff.

Sweden has 25% which is pretty high, compared to the 19% Germany.

[jrockway]

Canada: $1379. (On the $999-in-the-US iPhone XS.)

They do not always use the round numbers.

[ido]

Seeing as most Canadians live near the US border maybe they go closer to American prices there as there's a lower barrier for Canadians to cut the fat margins by crossing the border and buying in the US?

[gruez]

Considering that 1000 USD is 1340 CAD, you're only saving around 40 CAD for your troubles. That doesn't seem worth it if you value your time.

[ido]

yes, that was my point. If it was a larger margin like in other countries more Canadians would.

[mrunkel]

Including VAT and import duties? I find that very hard to believe.

[mstade]

Open the box and plug it in while in the states. Now it’s just property you brought along, not imported goods, so no duties to pay. I ain’t no lawyer though, and this is just advice I’ve been given in the past, so mileage may vary etc. (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s entirely wrong, someone please correct me!)

[ForHackernews]

I'm pretty sure that's legally fraud, but yes, there's a good chance you'd get away with it.

[gambiting]

Unless you're buying it with an explicit purpose to sell it off and avoid the import taxes that way it's absolutely not fraud. You are legally allowed to buy something for yourself while abroad and bring it back.

That's why you get certain allowances of how much you are allowed to bring back with you - say up to 200 cartons of cigarettes are free to bring over and that's clearly not something that you brought with you.

[ForHackernews]

In the case of Sweden, the personal duty-free allowance absolutely does not run to the cost of a specced-out Mac Pro: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/travelling...

> Other goods (including perfume, coffee, tea, electronic devices etc.)(a) - Up to a value of €430 for air and sea travellers

[gambiting]

It's one law that every single country has on the books and no one ever enforces - observe how it has no provision for anything that you actually own, if you go out of EU with your MacBook Pro and come back you should technically be declaring it at customs as an item over the allowance value. You should be declaring your phone and your watch if it's an expensive one too. Literally no one does this, and if you do try declaring those items you will be just waived through for wasting the guard's time.

[mstade]

If it is fraud, then at what point is it not? If I used it for a day/week/month before bringing it, is it ok? Intent matters I suppose, but how do you prove intent to circumvent import duties, versus just bringing my stuff? I genuinely don't know, seems like a lot of gray area.

[ForHackernews]

IANAL, but I think if you were legally resident in the USA for some number of years, and then moved to the EU, you could bring your personal possessions with you.

If you travel to the USA for a week and buy something, that's subject to import duty.