[yodon]

Of course controversy over credit exists. Please post links to the high traffic outraged threads on HN in connection with those controversies.

I've known and worked with perhaps half a dozen Nobel Prize winners, and dozens of their students, collaborators, and post docs, including some cases where the list of names on the Prize has been at best debatabely correct. That is the reality of large science. It always has been. What is new is the weaponization of misogyny.

[blub]

Having missed the main discussion, and getting the chance to see additional info become available, it seems that the critics were right, even if they perhaps had ignoble reasons to complain, as you claim.

There were apparently 30 people involved, four algorithms, one of which belonged to the main character of our story and in the end that algorithm was not used, according to one of her colleagues :)

[yodon]

All I can say is I am sorry you have fallen prey to that narrative. It is not uncommon for large science to involve not 30 people but hundreds, and not four algorithms but dozens. In the end, science still talks about the work as having been done by an individual, just as we say that Steve Jobs created the iPhone. Everyone involved understands that Steve Jobs didn't solder the battery connectors or write the display driver. What he did was make the project happen. The same is true in science, particularly in large science. There is nothing new here except misogyny. Your favorite male experimental Nobel Prize winners of the past 50 years also worked with large teams and also didn't write all the code on their projects. That's how large projects work and how large research efforts are personified.

[daenz]

>Please post links to the high traffic outraged threads on HN in connection with those controversies.

Honestly, take the time and read the comments and see how similar they are to the Katie Bouman "outrage": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15395347

[yodon]

First, I know Art McDonald, the scientist in question in that thread, and I do consider leading a large project to be a critical element of the project's success. Second, the quality of the discussion in that thread was much higher and the level of angry, punitive downvoting much lower (elsewhere in this thread I was downvoted currently to -2 for asserting that trolling != misogyny, an assertion that I think would be supported by every online and offline dictionary definition of the terms and is a measure of the emotional rather than rational factors driving much of this debate). Controversy over credit is not new. Weaponized misogyny driven outrage is. [edit added: Also thanks for finding and posting that link, it is a relevant component to include for comparison, even if we disagree on the conclusions to be drawn from it]