[o10449366]

Haha, psychopaths don't have to publish in TV or newspapers because they do it for them. Go back a decade or two before Facebook was a big deal and you'd see CNN, NYTimes, NBC, etc. all feverishly covering Columbine, spending weeks profiling the shooters and every detail of their lives, broadcasting bar graphs and rankings of mass murders like it's a video game scoreboard and openly publishing their manifestos and names for all to read and be influenced by. This is despite the well-studied phenomenon of media coverage inspiring copycat killers and terrorists and yet none of these publishing companies are held liable for their part in encouraging and incentivizing these horrible events.

All of this still happens today. Just two weeks ago I read an article in the NYTimes reporting on how NZ's prime minister asked people not to use or spread the shooter's name. In the same article NYTimes revealed it multiple times. The only frames from the video I've seen are the ones the Washington Post used--The shooters face blown up as the huge cover photo for the story. It just happens that now the internet is the biggest publication platform instead of television or print, so it naturally attracts psychopaths that are seeking the greatest impact.

The reality is that none of these publishing platforms are held liable and the media and HN don't want the internet to be held liable, either--they want FB to be held liable because they don't like FB. No one here is screaming for YouTube's heads after they failed to prevent millions of copies of the videos from being uploaded in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

[HNthrow22]

There's a huge difference between covering terrible events as a news story and providing the platform for content engineered to divide and radicalize to proliferate to millions. Also yes YouTube should be liable, not for the video of the NZ shooting being re-uploaded, but for the thousands of hours of hateful violent propaganda they allow to spread on their platform even facilitating it by suggesting it to users with their algorithm.

Drawing parallels between mediums like TV/Film is problematic because there's never been anything like the internet in human history, that being said a TV example of the kind of content that shouldn't be legal: 30 minute produced broadcast dedicated to sharing fake crime stats about Muslims and encouraging viewers to organize violent attacks on their local mosques - this is what goes on the internet. Users from 8chan were (and still are) encouraging and validating the NZ shooter. We have specific incidents and shooters we can point to now. Elliot Rodgers (Santa Barbara shooter) was an active redditor and incel and had his extreme beliefs were both validated and enforced by that community before he took action, ending innocent lives. One could make a case that without the wide ranging communal support these psychotic individuals wouldn't have been emboldened to act on their hateful beliefs. Nothing even close to this is broadcast to a wide audience anywhere but the internet and it shouldn't be permitted on the internet either.

Relevant comment from HN in 2017: taurath on July 19, 2017 [-]

If 20 people were to stand up on a soapbox with a megaphone in times square screaming about /r/redpill, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc concepts they would be removed if legal, and if not legal a huge countermovement would appear to try to force them out. On Reddit you get both the megaphone and the safe space, but are still just as easily accessible to the public as anywhere.

Its "real" freedom of information, without many of the mechanisms that larger society uses to fight back against it. Instead it is just ignored and left to fester and grow until it pops into the public forum at the point where huge efforts are required to fight it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14806974

[pjc50]

> 20 people were to stand up on a soapbox with a megaphone in times square screaming about /r/redpill, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc concepts they would be removed if legal, and if not legal a huge countermovement would appear to try to force them out

I think you badly underestimate the apathy towards this stuff. Perhaps a better comparison would be the anti-abortion protestors, who can be pretty extreme.

> 30 minute produced broadcast dedicated to sharing fake crime stats about Muslims

This is absolutely routine in the regular media.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-the-british-media-i... / https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/27/islamo...

The Times is today running a series of highly misleading selectively quoted articles about gender identity services, presumably with the intent of causing violence against and suicide among trans people.

[ryanlol]

>If 20 people were to stand up on a soapbox with a megaphone in times square screaming about /r/redpill, /r/fatpeoplehate, etc concepts they would be removed if legal, and if not legal a huge countermovement would appear to try to force them out. On Reddit you get both the megaphone and the safe space, but are still just as easily accessible to the public as anywhere.

I wouldn't be so sure. People would probably just disregard the crazy screaming r/redpill or r/fatpeoplehate preachers, just like they disregard the Black Hebrew Israelites.

It's not terribly unusual to see people preaching about crazy hateful shit on the street, it is unusual for anyone to actually care though.

[cotelletta]

It amazes me that RedPill gets such hate. It's just Cosmo for men: mediocre life and dating advice, with a nugget of truth. Here are the current top posts.

- "Sexual Selection and Existential Fear": about disregarding the notion that men always want sex and women do the choosing. In other words, self respect.

- "How to Structure Your Day to Maximize Productivity." This could be plucked from a magazine.

- "Practice what you learn." Pretty much what it says, basic life advice about persistence.

- "Day game works--get out there and approach" If you want to date women, approach them and make conversation. Duh.

- "Be thoroughly logical about what you want from women and what you're prepared to pay for it" Again, have some self respect and don't roll over.

This is apparently so threatening that it must be quarantined. How fragile must women be that giving men some basic sanity checking, and telling them not to worship every vagina on sight, is a threat to society and must be hysterically misrepresented and demonized at every turn.

The sad part is, red pill is probably the first time in these guys' lives that someone has given these dudes a script that can actually succeed. It's not great, it misses a lot of nuance, but it's a start. What do you want instead, incels who resent the world and think they are literally incapable of being loved, so they shouldn't try?

Actually yes, that's exactly what people seem to want. For the undesirables to go away, and for sociable people to continue to enjoy the privilege of being sufficiently attractive and sufficiently high class that useless feel good advice like "just be yourself!" is all anyone will ever need. And then calling that empathy.

[HNthrow22]

To clarify you're responding to a comment I've quoted from another user-

The issue becomes with the internet being able to silence all dissent and create re-enforcing echo chmabers. The forces at play are not stupid and they target disenfranchised, lonely, young males full of angst.

Imagine a packed hall with hundreds of people loudly cheering for someone calling for genocide of X group, this is what these hate clusters look like and if we saw it in the real world no one would say "This is an acceptable cost of free speech"

There exists speech that has no redeeming qualities and serves only to incite violence and hate. To argue as many commented here have that outlawing this would lead down a slippery slope of authoritarian government censorship is simply ridiculous. We've outlawed child pornography and that hasn't led us down any slippery slopes.

[ryanlol]

>Imagine a packed hall with hundreds of people loudly cheering for someone calling for genocide of X group, this is what these hate clusters look like and if we saw it in the real world no one would say "This is an acceptable cost of free speech"

Do nazis not have conferences? I find it hard to believe that this doesn’t happen.

>We've outlawed child pornography and that hasn't led us down any slippery slopes.

Has it not? Many jurisdictions outlaw even computer generated porn depicting minors. We’ve essentially banned people of certain sexual orientation from consuming any porn at all, how is that not a slippery slope?

But hey, I guess lots of people want to live in a world where perverts go to prison for jerking off to anime girls.