[denschub]

We also have multiple documented cases of "no-log VPNs" submitting their logs to law enforcement. I even linked to one case in my post. What's your point here, exactly? Because my point was you have to trust either party.

Oh, and btw, here in Europe, it is actually illegal for ISPs to give connection data away for non-law-enforcement purposes. It's sad that there are some US-American ISPs that have a record of selling some information, but the world does not evolve around the USA.

[ikeboy]

Which case are you talking about? You have no links in the "no-log" section.

Other fatal flaws in that section, fwiw

>Starting with the obvious, if you pay for a VPN service, they have to keep your user account and associated payment information and your payment history. So, unless you are using a fake identity and an anonymous credit card (is that even possible these days?), your VPN account will be linked to your actual identity.

Plenty of VPNs accept bitcoin, and prepaid anonymous debit cards are widely available.

>Most VPNs limit the number of devices that can be connected at the same time. For that to work, well, they have to store a piece of information stating which device is connected, and what VPN account it is associated with. They have to associate your VPN session with your VPN account, as counting the number of sessions per account would be impossible otherwise.

This is addressed in the link above. Besides, it's possible to limit simultaneous connections without storing anything to disk.

>What's your point here, exactly? Because my point was you have to trust either party.

The difference is that no major ISPs are claiming not to log.

[kmonsen]

Bitcoin has very little anonymity as well BTW. Probably less than credit cards.

[mirimir]

Sure. And that's why people who want anonymous Bitcoin use mixing services. Such as Bitcoin Fog:[0]

> In December 2013 the site was used to launder a part of the 96,000 BTC from the robbery of Sheep Marketplace.

> In February 2015, a total of 7,170 bitcoin was stolen from the Chinese exchange Bter.com and traced back to cryptocurrency-tumblers like Bitcoin Fog.

0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_Fog

[jeltz]

Many VPN services also accept cash.

[mirimir]

> We also have multiple documented cases of "no-log VPNs" submitting their logs to law enforcement.

That's true. And so some of us go out of our way to name names. For example:

EarthVPN - user compromised by datacenter logs

HMA - retained logs, and provided them under UK court order

Proxy.sh - outed someone voluntarily, because they didn't like something he did

PureVPN - retained logs, and shared them with investigators

> Because my point was you have to trust either party.

That's true. Except when it isn't. If you use nested VPN chains, you don't need to trust any of the individual VPNs. It's not as anonymous as Tor, because it's static, and far less complicated to compromise. But it's at least 10x faster. And you can hit Tor through them, which protects you from evil entry guards.