[chillacy]

Are you really here to argue semantics?

Also I'm a pretty hard core capitalist myself but plenty of people aren't actually afraid of the label "socialism", especially those outside the US, so you won't be able to convince someone by just labeling something as socialist.

If I had to generalize, the problems at hand are growing the pie and distributing the pie, and the two are often at odds.

[opnitro]

I suppose the reason I choose to argue the semantics is that I think overdefining the term socialism hides the critique of capitalism that socialism embodies, and I think that does a disservice to the debate.

[sbenitoj]

You’re a rare breed in these parts!

I’m not trying to argue semantics, I don’t think most people on this forum realize that the redistribution of wealth IS socialism. I’m aware that “socialist” does not carry the bad connotation I believe it deserves on this forum.

Capitalist companies are first and foremost concerned with growing the pie; socialist govts are concerned with getting a bigger slice of the current pie and don’t care very much about growing it.

[arcticbull]

I don't think most of us agree that redistribution of wealth (the proceeds of production) is socialism (the redistribution of the means of production). The US has particularly strong property rights, and asking companies to chip in to reimburse the public for the benefits they've leveraged to become and remain successful (such as national defense, public education, public roads, public police, public fire departments, public water, courts, etc) is beyond the pail even if you choose to label that socialism. I don't think it's beyond the pail to work to build a more meritocratic than plutocratic society to ensure the next generation of businesses also.

[chillacy]

I don't want to get in between you two if you're dead set on arguing over the definition of socialism but it seems to me to be unproductive.

[arcticbull]

Fair, he seemed genuinely surprised that some of us had a different idea so I wanted to explain where I’m coming from so we had a shared basis to work from. It was more of a pitch than an argument :)

[chillacy]

> I’m not trying to argue semantics, I don’t think most people on this forum realize that the redistribution of wealth IS socialism

Heh, that is literally arguing over the definition of a word ;)

But yes, let's do the math trick of "Let X = Y" and say "Sbenitoj's Socialism" means wealth redistribution which I would assume to entail welfare, taxation, etc.

I think that's a good jumping point to debate about what the best mix is (which would then depend on what measuring stick people are using... gdp? median happiness? min(happiness)?) and then you can get somewhere.