[shadowprofile76]

Most governments already have plenty of money that they take in from various taxes, in many cases government tax collection is at record levels and government size (both fiscally and in terms of raw personnel and asset bloat) is definitely greater than at any time in modern history for most western states. At what point does the discussion turn to asking governments to you know, actually prioritize and allocate their spending better? Considering just how much they waste on the simple inertial task of keeping all their perpetually active very often useless things alive. We could list so many examples of huge resource waste by governments, but no no, let's blame Apple et al for "hoarding". I fail to see how any thinking person could first pin the blaim on Apple and other companies for "poor working SOBs getting robbed" Those SOBs are already getting robbed but mainly by government, which literally takes money from them and still keeps their services shitty under bullshit justifications like "not enough funding", unlike Apple, that's mainly holding onto more of money it actually earned by selling things customers wanted.

[arcticbull]

Big companies aren't hoarding money to prove a point about government waste. They're doing it because they are entities designed to maximize and further solely their own interests and that of the shareholders. Government and law serve as constraints to ensure their good is compatible with ours.

Here we have two conversations:

(1) Governments should collect all taxes they're entitled to (they are acting on our will after all).

(2) Government waste should be eliminated.

Only the big ones are in a position to evade successfully further stratifying and consolidating power within the top few. Monopolies and even oligopolies are pretty distasteful to capitalists are they not?

[coliveira]

Poor argument. Even if the government robbed money (which is most of the time not true), it would be better to have the money robbed by my government than by some rich dude that I never saw in my life to maintain his wealth in some foreign country.

[shadowprofile76]

I am not referring to government robbing money in a crassly criminal/corrupt sense. My point was in reference to the government simply spending poorly the money it legitimately takes through legally sanctioned means (taxes), but then crying about budget problems despite this. I repeat, government size, reach and government spending are all at nearly record levels in most western states, despite this the focus keeps being placed on companies avoiding taxes instead of government reallocating its existing funds better. This is not simple whataboutism either, It's a point that's directly relevant to the arguments around to what degree companies should be allowed to avoid their perceived tax obligations.

Furthermore, you mention preferring having money robbed from you by someone in government than by some rich dude you never saw in your life. What's the difference? Since I assume your definition of theft is about actual stealing by either party, then in either case, someone you don't know is taking money you could have had access to for their personal benefit. Except that in the corporate case, the person in question is not even actually stealing from you, they're keeping more of something they first earned through sales. The corrupt government thief however literally takes from what was first taken from you by taxation.

[coliveira]

The efficient use of money by the government is an important, but separate point. I am in support in improving the way the government uses every cent of our taxes.

The thing about someone else robbing my money is that companies that hide money due in taxes are effectively taking what is not theirs by law, and hiding in a foreign country where we'll never see it. If the government is misusing the money, at least some of it may be recovered, and even the most inefficient use is made inside our country, thus contributing to the local economy.

[blunte]

One wrong does not justify another.