[kadendogthing]

Why should I believe a self post? There's a weird anti-Yelp cult but never can the people who claim Yelp is involved with nefarious business practices provide any actual proof.

Yelp employees don't know about these practices.

Yelp says it doesn't have these practices.

And these people can't ever offer substantive evidence for the outrage porn they're writing.

I'm thoroughly convinced after reading countless of these types of posts that the anti-Yelp sentiment is purely born out of salty business owners who don't like the fact that they get terrible reviews from an experienced audience.

This post does not belong on HN. There is nothing worth discussing about this story except to fulfill someone's outrage porn fetish.

[paleogizmo]

AFAIK, it's more than just yelp employees that don't admit knowing about such practices, ex-yelp employees also don't admit knowing either. So far evidence points to yelp extortion being the work of independent scammers.

However, hasn't Google reviews pretty well made Yelp irrelevant at this point? And while there's lots to be concerned about Google's business model, I'm not aware of any potential for conflict-of-interest in Google reviews as with Yelp.

[whycombagator]

> However, hasn't Google reviews pretty well made Yelp irrelevant at this point?

If it were a race to rate everything as close to 5/5 as possible, yes. Google, Facebook, and Tripadvisor are all winning that race.

Yelp typically has lower ratings and is easier to filter/search.

It's far from the perfect platform, but certainly less astroturfed than the others.

[millzlane]

You don't have to believe it. I believe the post because I have experienced this similar behavior with two clients that were involved with yelp. And both times yelp tried to use scare tactics to get me to purchase their services on behalf of my clients. I won't go into detail. But this is more than some anti-yelp cult like some people from yelp would love for you believe.

[noddingham]

You literally proved his point by saying "I won't go into detail".

[kadendogthing]

>You don't have to believe it.

I know I don't. I asked why I should. The principle behind the question was providing rational evidence to lend credence to these stories. Your statements don't offer anything that help with this.

[AstralStorm]

The only "rational evidence" you could ever get is Yelp stats and they're obviously biased.

Or you could compile anecdotes into actual data, read between the lines of their reports on retain rates.

[kadendogthing]

>Or you could compile anecdotes into actual data,

So we should believe the IRS does actually call people and ask for their information? Because if you think listening to these types of posts are the equivalent of massaging anecdotes into actual "data", that's the conclusion you're going to come to on either subject matter.

Or we could realize the fundamental ego-stroking absurdities of these posts, take into account there's no evidence, take into account that no employees former or current say that Yelp is involved with nefarious business practices, and take into account the business' own statements on this matter, and come to the very rational conclusion that these posts aren't based on any actual actions taken by Yelp.

[masonic]

But repeated allegations of these practices remain, e.g.

https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/yelp-and-the-business...

There is more evidence in the filings for Curry v. Yelp.

[sdinsn]

I agree, an unsubstantiated self post shouldn't be spread on HN.

[antisthenes]

> It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

This quote has never been more relevant here.

> Yelp employees don't know about these practices.

> Yelp says it doesn't have these practices.

And both of these parties have skin in the game. Their incentives are, of course, to pretend they do not have dishonest and extortionate practices and to perpetuate the status quo.

> I'm thoroughly convinced after reading countless of these types of posts that the anti-Yelp sentiment is purely born out of salty business owners who don't like the fact that they get terrible reviews from an experienced audience.

I'm thoroughly convinced after your post that not only do you not understand how Yelp works (that they have the ability to arbitrarily move reviews to and from recommended and not recommended, affecting a businesses' score), but you also do not understand that Yelp is generally a bad medium for non-biased reviews, because most people will only leave a review if they're ecstatic about the business or have a gripe with it.

For every piece of feedback you see, there are probably at least 400-500 normal business interactions with regular people, despite whatever arbitrary rating Yelp has chosen to display on that week.

> And these people can't ever offer substantive evidence for the outrage porn they're writing.

You don't get to play arbiter on the height of the bar set for evidence. There have been multiple accounts over the years from business owners detailing the nature of their phone calls with Yelp. Until their algorithm for rating is open sourced, the burden of proof is actually on Yelp to showcase that the ratings are not being manipulated in any way. What's stopping them from removing a 5 star review and citing that it "doesn't follow guidelines" and pretend that it's ok?

> This post does not belong on HN.

Indeed it is your post that doesn't belong on HN. It is indicative of poor research, victim blaming and vague goalpost moving.

[kadendogthing]

>And both of these parties have skin in the game.

I think you need to avoid using conspiracy theories. It's a rating system, not a secret government project.

>There have been multiple accounts over the years from business owners detailing the nature of their phone calls with Yelp.

You and I have very very different standards on what constitutes evidence on any subject matter. It's simply not rational to take people are their word when they're so emotionally invested in this subject matter, or what's more likely is they're just being scammed. Small business owners tend to not be the brightest bunch of people. And there is a sizable population of current and former engineers all saying Yelp does not do these things. There has never been evidence of anything the actions people accuse Yelp of taking. It's either scammers or rather, as I've come to see, business owners just being salty they get negative reviews.

Based on how you're thinking about this, you'd think the IRS and the scammers who call people over the phone pretending to be the IRS are one in the same. That's how insane you're being.

>Until their algorithm for rating is open sourced

You seem to be under the impression this would mean anything, but it's an opinion born out of a dearth of knowledge on technical systems and security in general. The code being published isn't necessarily the code being run.

>It is indicative of poor research,

I think you need to really have a big think about what opinions and solutions you think are worth considering.

>victim blaming

What? There are victims here?

>vague goalpost

Now you're just throwing words around.