[darawk]

> "How much tax you avoid" isn't a reliable measure of political power

Erm, is it not? Do you think rich people enjoy paying taxes? I don't. The fact that the poor manage to force them to pay the overwhelming majority of taxes, in order to subsidize social services that they don't even consume is a tremendous defeat for them.

> Firstly, if paying taxes can work in their benefit, then there's no reason they shouldn't pay them

How do they work in their benefit? And secondly, why is it to their benefit to have a progressive tax system? If I were a rich person that could set the rules by fiat, i'd say "sure we should have income taxes, we should all pay a flat tax of 20%". And in fact, you see many rich people and libertarian organizations advocating for exactly this. They get precisely zero traction, because they don't have the political power to do it.

[Retra]

Well, gee. You got me. I guess all those rich people would just move to Somalia and pay no taxes, but they can't do it because they have no power. Poor them. Having to pay taxes to participate in a society that secures their massive accumulated wealth. What could possibly be the value in that, I wonder.

[darawk]

Why do you keep trying to argue against a straw man? I'll say it again: I'm not saying they're victims. I'm not saying that they have less power than they should. I don't feel sorry for them. You made a specific claim: That they had a massive amount of power. I made a counter-claim: That if that were true, they'd be paying less in taxes. Do you have a response to that? Because it seems like you don't.

[Retra]

They are paying less in taxes. US tax rates have been dropping for almost 70 years.

[darawk]

You're still dodging my point.