[clucas]

You're right that some of these terms have ambiguity, but your example is silly - it's well-accepted that the term "white nationalist" stands on its own and means something different from "white and a nationalist."

But even setting aside your specific example, I don't believe that ambiguity should paralyze us into inaction. I think it's fair to say "OK, we'll ban anyone who advocates distributing political power based on race, with the white 'race' getting the most power... when people cross that line won't always be clear, but we'll do our best." For private action especially, we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[manfredo]

> You're right that some of these terms have ambiguity, but your example is silly - it's well-accepted that the term "white nationalist" stands on its own and means something different from "white and a nationalist."

Stephen Colbert would disagree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nk0dUjYUNI

"You know why you're not supposed to use that word [nationalist]? Because it's the second half of 'white nationalist'. Chopping off the first word doesn't change what it means in our minds."

[freehunter]

Stephen Colbert is also a comedian and not a linguist.

[raxxorrax]

Good thing Facebook moderators are linguists. It was high time they get a real job.

[cat199]

> it's well-accepted that the term "white nationalist" stands on its own and means something different from "white and a nationalist."

Is it?

Or is this a deliberately conflated term promoted as an 'official' label in public discourse in order to dissuade association with those favoring the more benign meaning?

Agreed that ambiguity shouldn't create inaction - but it just as well shouldn't promote incorrect action either

[speedplane]

> Or is this a deliberately conflated term promoted as an 'official' label in public discourse in order to dissuade association with those favoring the more benign meaning?

Why would you use the term white and nationalist together? Being white has very little to do with being a nationalist unless you believe it has everything to do with it, in which case you would be racist.

[cat199]

Maybe you wouldn't, but if you happen to be white, and taking an (inclusive, not race based) nationalist ideology, you can now conveniently be smeared by describing these two facts..

Oh her? don't listen to her, shes a 'white nationalist'.

Also, if, assuming this confusion to be true, having the term 'white nationalist' existing in the discourse as a negative, those who are not aware of the nuances between 'whites who happen to be nationalist' and 'those promoting a white nation' are pre-biased via faulty discourse to discount the words of 'whites who happen to be nationalist'.

Any popular terminology which deliberately overlooks subtlety and dismisses it when it is pointed out in the discourse is problematic. It's effectively a subtle smear campaign against the non-problematic nuances.

See also the strangely similar situation with the term 'skinhead' -

Initially this was a mostly apolitical working class subculture, most listened to soul music and smoked pot and listened to reggae, and many were apolitical or left/socialist leaning. Genearlly mildly populist, mostly white, but yes somewhat 'dangerous' in that it was a popular social movement of unconventional rowdy people of all stripes. (much like the 'disenfranchised trumpians' that the media is happy to highlight as contributing to the rise of the so-called 'white nationalism' we're talking about here)

Cue one politically motivated overtly racist subgroup acting up and stealing all the headlines, and now the entire term/culture is essentially taboo..

One can argue that this group just got the press and 'messed up the term', but at some point editorial bias is a factor.

For god sakes this is 'hacker news' I shouldn't need to explain this.

[NotAnEconomist]

> it's well-accepted that the term "white nationalist" stands on its own and means something different from "white and a nationalist."

Many right-wing people claim that in practice, there's not: they're accused of being "white nationalists" for being "white and a nationalist".

Edit:

If people downvoting me think I'm wrong, explain why people like Jordan Peterson, who merely espouse non-leftist positions and happen to be white, routinely get accused of supporting the alt-right and neo-Nazis.

For the people who doubt what I'm saying -- here's a video of Jordan Peterson. This is who the leftists routinely call "neo-Nazis" or "alt-right": moderates who refute their positions and calmly assert values like personal responsibility over collectivist victimhood culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2bFzK2EdIo

Edit 2:

I'd originally written "conservative"; I'm not sure Mr Peterson would describe himself in such terms. I've made it more neutral.

[manfredo]

I concur that terms like "Nazi", "white nationalist", "alt-right" and similar have essentially morphed into "person I don't like".

And this applies to both ends of the political spectrum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

[josteink]

> have essentially morphed into "person I don't like"

I’d say it’s even closer to “people I disagree with”.

[kgwgk]

For many people the latter implies the former.

[Multicomp]

"White nationalism" is an overloaded term and until tonight I'd never heard the official definition of white nationalism until GPs comments.

I've just assumed it was a vague insult aimed at non-nominal conservatives.

[marmada]

Not sure how you reached the conclusion that white nationalism doesn't have a real meaning. Googling "white nationalism" gives plenty of results that indicate "white nationalism" is an ideology that promotes white supremacy and/or a whites-only nation/racial segregation.

To quote Merriam Webster:

"one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation"

[Multicomp]

To be clear, I stated that I'd never heard the official definition and used context clues to come up with a running (incorrect) definition.

I am not of the opinion that white nationalism has no real meaning.