[dsfyu404ed]

Not whining over the slightest inconvenience is part of existing in civil society. Complaining about your neighbor using an air hammer on steel at 11pm, ok. Complaining about your neighbor using an air hammer on steel at normal hours = not ok.

It all comes down to being reasonable and in middle upper class suburbia the Overton window of what is reasonable has moved to favor the complainers over the people who want to go about their lives to the point where those places have seen fit to legislate (or enforce via HOA) what is "reasonable" and that inevitably turns into a race to the bottom.

[rootusrootus]

Conversely, having some consideration for your neighbors is part of existing in civil society.

I live in a neighborhood that very closely fits the definition of upper middle class suburbia, and the power balance is most assuredly not in favor of complainers. Quite the opposite in fact.

I also think you do a disservice to this discussion by suggesting it is just innocent people going about their lives that are being held back by the evil complainers. From my perspective it is the assholes driving their damn two-cycle quads up and down the street for hours every morning where there's more than half an inch of snow on the ground. These folks are not going about their lives, they are entertaining themselves at the neighborhood's expense.

I detest HOAs but a well-run community benefits from a collective agreement on what constitutes 'reasonable'.

[vvanders]

You haven't lived next to retired people with nothing but free time on their hands.

A large part of us moving out of the suburbs and somewhere rural was the adjacent retired neighbors always being in our business. I'm all for being a considerate neighbor but there's little substitute for a lot of space between you and your neighbor.

[logfromblammo]

Good fences make good neighbors.

HOAs make what's on your side of your fence potentially someone else's business again.

(And they frequently ban chain-link fences, even when they are a cheap, effective, and durable way to put up a fence that won't be popping rusty deck screws out of the slats in three years (or less!) and letting the dogs escape.)

[vvanders]

Yeah, except the city defines what's an acceptable fence height(3ft) and how much you spend(~$400) when you want to fix the fence that's falling over(via permit process).

(FWIW I have no issues with paying taxes but annoying to have to pay to fix something existing that's broken).

[rootusrootus]

Well, my next-door neighbors are retired, but they're not jerks.

I agree that more space is better. Once my kids are out of school (which is within walking distance currently) we will move farther out of town. Mostly because I get tired of listening to my neighbors' hobbies ;-)

[ryandrake]

Got a kick out of your air hammer example because I happen to be working on a project that involves me using an air hammer (among other loud pneumatic tools) on many weeknights. The key was I actually took the time before starting to gasp sit down and talk to my neighbors and agree on things like noise level, hours I’d be working, keeping the garage door shut, etc. Lucked out by having reasonable neighbors, but you can usually head off trouble by talking with people as if they were grown adults. Ended up costing me nothing but a new quieter air compressor, and no visits from the city yet.

[lostlogin]

Giving them something works a treat. I assume my bees will misbehave one day and irritate neighbours so I have preemptively handed over many kgs of honey. Some have been keen and had a look in the hives too. The neighbours haven’t complained yet tho SOs have, as once I had a beemageddon when I had a bit of a honey extraction disaster had everyone in the house had to leave home for the day until I sorted it out. Bees were coming in keyholes, extractor fans and gaps in closed windows.

[OJFord]

But the line is broad, grey, and subjective.

Which is why we have officials with letterheads to mediate.