[chrisco255]

Former real estate agent, now software engineer. Doing a FSBO (for sale by owner) is as old as time. There's nothing wrong with this approach, but you are limiting your market (and you might therefore be selling at a lower price anyways) and it's highly dependent on your: patience, financial situation, free time, marketing skills, general sales skills, local housing market, tricky property situations, ability to assist buyers with locating financing, handling any objections or mortgage exceptions that come up (including zoning and inspections requirements), etc.

Buyer's agents deserve their 3% perhaps even more than listing agents and it's unfortunate you screwed this agent out of that. It's sort of like stiffing a server on a tip. Buyers are fickle, time consuming, and sometimes demanding. It can take many showings and offers to find a good fit for someone. Sometimes I would work with a client for weeks or months. Many clients would fall through and you'd get $0 for those clients. So you have to average out your earnings with the successes.

There's other things you have to do, too sometimes. Like once I had an FHA financed client and there were certain restrictions about the distance a well could be from the septic tank at the Federal level but they didn't match the requirements at the county level (which were looser). So I had to coordinate with local zoning and the FHA to get an exception for this loan. That was a bigger ordeal than I can explain here.

These online MLS listing services have been around since 2004-2005. They're nothing new. Are there crappy agents? Yeah. Just like any profession. But the profession itself is not going anywhere.

[Youden]

> and it's unfortunate you screwed this agent out of that.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Why on earth would I be obligated to pay the buyer's agent? What has the agent done for me? When did I establish a relationship with this person and agree to pay them anything?

I would feel absolutely fine paying this person zero. If they want to get paid, they should take it up with the buyer because the buyer is the one who engaged their services.

Note: I am not American.

[chrisco255]

They brought you a buyer. The buyer pays for everything in both cases. If you sell your house for $100K - 3% it's the same as selling your house FSBO for $97K.

[gibybo]

He sold his as FSBO. It's highly unlikely the real estate agent brought the buyer since they hate FSBOs. It's much more likely the buyer found the house himself/herself.

[Gibbon1]

My experience with a buyers agent was no offense but they were pretty much worthless when selecting which houses to make offers on.

On the pro side the sellers agent was also worthless.

[jacquesm]

> Buyer's agents deserve their 3% perhaps even more than listing agents and it's unfortunate you screwed this agent out of that.

3% of the value of a house is hardly 'a tip', a common fee in Europe for selling a house is around 1.5 to 2%, a typical buyer will not use a realtor at all. Oh, and it is illegal here for a realtor to charge both the buyer and the seller because there is a clear conflict of interest there, you can only work for one party. The real estate market in North America is ridiculous.

[ethbro]

> Oh, and it is illegal here for a realtor to charge both the buyer and the seller because there is a clear conflict of interest there, you can only work for one party.

Technically, in the US, the buyer's agent is only working for the buyer. They're just paid by the seller (traditionally and stupidly).

[speedplane]

> in the US, the buyer's agent is only working for the buyer. They're just paid by the seller (traditionally and stupidly).

I just went through this process. While the buyer's agent ostensibly works for the buyer, their main incentive is to get you to close. It doesn't matter if it's a good deal, a bad deal, or whatever. They take 3% so if you overpay or underpay by 10% of the appropriate value of the house that's only +/- 0.3% to them. They are much more interested in closing the deal quickly and moving on to the next than making sure you get what you want.

[makeset]

Not to defend the system, the incentives are clearly not well-aligned, but I also just went through this process had an unexpectedly great experience with my buyer's agent, whom I found through a referral.

He was professional, ethical, and actually took his fiduciary duty seriously. He didn't claim to find listings that I wouldn't have myself, but guided my search a bit based on my criteria, gave candid feedback on them and what to look for, and bargained on the price with the seller harder than I would have, saving me more than his commission. When I discovered a potential issue with the property and had second thoughts pre-close, he didn't try to discourage me one bit from letting a done deal fall through, and was ready to support my decision. And he set up the many appointments with the seller's agents, handled the literal ream of closing paperwork, dotted the i's and crossed the t's, and made this whole convoluted process go smoothly. From my end, he more than deserved his commission he got out of the deal, and he will certainly have my future business buying or selling.

[speedplane]

Maybe I just got a bad buyer's broker (he was a reference from my mother, how could I refuse). My broker would refuse to CC me or BCC me on any communication with the seller's agent, or the co-op board, and when I asked him to forward this communication, he would remove timestamps and the underlying earlier threaded email messages.

It felt incredibly sketchy and unprofessional, but to this day I'm not sure if it was due to ineptitude, trying to provide cover for himself, or worse (maybe by deleting timestamps he could claim he responded faster than he did).

He also made a huge omission. He knew we wanted to renovate the apartment, but we did not get a copy of the alteration agreement until after we signed the contract. I didn't even know what an alteration agreement was, but it was something I felt a good buyer's broker should raise early if he/she knows you're planning a reno.

In the end, the deal did close, I think we got a fair price, but it came with many avoidable headaches and much unnecessary anxiety had our broker been more professional.

[ethbro]

We're talking gradations of responsibility, now.

In the same way a lawyer works for you, a buyer's agent works for the buyer.

Emphasis on works for. My understanding is they are under obligations to (a) attempt to realize your stated goals & (b) ensure everything is done properly on the paperwork side.

If you say "I want to pay $750,000 for a house that appraises for $450,000", I don't think they have an obligation to say "You should probably pay less / not buy that property."

As you've rightly noted, there is a conflict of interest (mostly with speed of deal, rather than price). But ultimately it's the buyer's responsibility to set the terms of the deal.

[stjohnswarts]

That's not true in a general sense at all. My agent actively dissuaded me from several houses and pointed out why they were a bad deal. In the end I ended up with a house that I found while driving around a neighborhood I liked. The BA helped me with all the paperwork and made sure I didn't have any issues with the purchase as well.

[mattmanser]

It's funny to watch American films and TV shows where everyone seems to be a realtor on the side, or getting a realtors licence.

[azhenley]

It isn't just on TV. A considerable portion of my friends on FB are or have been realtors.

[chrisco255]

Not that hard to get. A lot harder to make a career out of it.

[vsl]

This is partially untrue. A typical fee around here, in Europe, is 3%.

Having only a single realtor involved, for the seller, is true. I don’t doubt property search services are offered, but it’s not a default.

[jseliger]

Buyer's agents deserve their 3% perhaps even more than listing agents and it's unfortunate you screwed this agent out of that. It's sort of like stiffing a server on a tip

A tip might be $20, not $10,000. The two are nothing alike.

[brightball]

Yea, I find the fees for buyers agents to be entirely worth it just based on the time investment in showings with no promise of sale.

Listings themselves...not so much.

But fee wise, those are always negotiable.