[erentz]

> 200mg modafinil

The wide use of drugs as performance enhancers in our industry really makes me unhappy and uncomfortable. (I guess it probably exists in other industries too?)

I can't work out how to properly put into words how or why it makes me uncomfortable. But it seems like instead of drawing lines and saying people shouldn't need to take ADHD medication to focus, or modafinil to work unnatural hours, or ambien to sleep on planes, we're just going along with it. Like the work should come first, and of course we should take drugs to allow us to meet work expectations, or to get the upper hand in intra-employee competition, etc.

[rayiner]

That’s an odd bit of moralizing. We’ve been taking drugs to alter our mental state for thousands of years (alcohol, caffeine). I don’t know about Modanifil, but Adderall is one of the most well studied drugs out there, so much so that we give it to children for permanent daily use. A therapeutic dose is much easier on your cardiovascular system than the double shot espressos that everyone chugs down.

[pseudalopex]

Alcohol rarely improves work performance.

Caffeine's cognitive effects are mixed. It's mainly used as an inferior substitute for sleep.

The effects of lifelong Adderall use are not well studied.[1] The effects of untreated ADHD and narcolepsy are.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/mp200890

[reitanqild]

> The effects of lifelong Adderall use are not well studied.[1] The effects of untreated ADHD and narcolepsy are.

Emphasis mine.

I think this - right there - seems to be the reason why we continue and probably should continue to give stimulants to certain grown ups.

[MarvelousWololo]

I have ADHD but I've never took any medication for that. Would you mind to share some of these effects? Because over the years I feel like my attention span has shrank considerably.

[geofft]

Modafinil has basically as safe as caffeine, isn't it? The big difference with caffeine is that many governments permit caffeine in food/drink but control modafinil, but trusting governments to have good opinions on drug safety seems a little unsubstantiated. I think modafinil is less addictive than caffeine and has fewer withdrawal problems. And it's not a drug like cocaine or alcohol that has serious long-term side effects. So I think the only serious reason to avoid it, if it doesn't cause you side effects, is a morality that says certain drugs are bad. (Which isn't even consistent - there are plenty of moralities in the world that say that caffeine and alcohol are bad too, and that at least makes sense.)

It's not unusual to feel gut-uncomfortable with technology enhancing the lives of humans beyond where nature left us, but at the end of the day, I have trouble seeing how you can say using modafinil to get your job done is bad but using eyeglasses to get your job done is good.

[soufron]

It's not "governments" that control drugs, but the FDA - in the US - and it's comprised of M.D.

[geofft]

Do M.D.s generally recognize modafinil as less safe than caffeine and alcohol? It seems unlikely to me that the political will exists in the US to schedule either, regardless of what doctors actually think.

My claim is that no research exists that argues that modafinil is more dangerous than caffeine. (I'm not 100% sure about this claim, and it's easily debunkable. And for what it's worth I take caffeine and have never taken modafinil.)

[kough]

I'm deeply uncomfortable with it too, and that's why I'm probably going to taper down to a complete stop. It's just hard to want to do that when I'm much more focused and productive when I'm on strong stimulants. All of my most effective coworkers are medicated.

[Karrot_Kream]

This isn't sustainable. Ask older folks around you who used to use a lot of stimulants when they were younger, and you'll find the answer. Stimulant use is a lot harder on the body and the mind the older you get. Caffeine, as a light stimulant, is better, but can also be problematic.

I've encountered these work environments before and I wouldn't want to again. In my case it was a bunch of young people pushing themselves to the brink hoping to win the startup lottery as early as possible. They didn't of course. I hope your work environment isn't like this.

[noir_lord]

I quit caffeine (stomach issues) over a period of a few weeks, I replaced my morning up and moving cup with a shower as cold as I can stand, I challenge anyone to still feel sleepy after that (assuming they slept well).

It isn’t fun some days though.

[kough]

fwiw I work 9-5, i just like being more productive during that time.

[geofft]

Are you happy when you're more focused and productive? (I am, fwiw, this isn't an "are you really happy" question.)

[1337biz]

Same here, but I would rather go on unemployment benefits than hurting my body to become a more efficient work machine. Life is too short.

[stochastic_monk]

This strikes me an unhealthy and unethical, if even legal.

[ianai]

Like my classmates who took adderal to get good grades, definitely. It shouldn’t be tolerated and should be tested. But then all of academia needs to change.