[Flip-per]

I've been to Sri Lanka recently where 70 % of the people are Buddhists. It's a beautiful island, the people are very calm and nice to each other and to Tourists, it was a pleasure to travel around. It's a very safe place, crime and stealing is almost nonexistent. Disagreements are solved in a quite calm way.

And then I got aware that it has one of the highest suicide rates worldwide. How comes? One issue might be that Sri Lankans do not talk about their feelings. The civil war ended 10 years ago, not talking about what happened very likely has bad effects on mental health. Another issue could be that hiding aggression might not be healthy either. Studies show that hiding aggression is one possible cause for depressions, which might depend on the society you are living in. (I didn't read those studies but heard them from multiple reliable sources) Being aggressive doesn't mean starting to hit somebody, it can be raising your voice and get your opinion across very clearly. I'm not sure whether a calm and self-controlled Inuit child would have an easy time in a western Kindergarten, school, or workplace.

[hliyan]

Sri Lankan here. This is absolutely not true:

the people are very calm and nice to each other and to Tourists, it was a pleasure to travel around. It's a very safe place, crime and stealing is almost nonexistent. Disagreements are solved in a quite calm way.

You may have seen a tourist's version of the island, and have been fortunate enough to not encounter violence or theft. Both are very common. People are very quick to anger on the road. Theft and flouting rules are common. Don't get me wrong, we have many good qualities (for example, we're known for being helpful and hospitable), but calmness is not one of them!

[stcredzero]

I saw this TED talk by a Rwandan official. He was talking about the western counselors who came to help after the tragic events there. He said something along the lines of: These westerners came and made victims sit alone in cold rooms with them and talk about nothing but the bad things that happened to them -- instead of taking them into the sunlight, being among people, music and happiness. They were horrible, and he had to get rid of them.

I don't think anyone knows everything there is to know about being human. Who does? People often act as if they know everything or at least know better, even when they shouldn't.

[wahern]

Modern Western society, especially American society, seems to put all its attention on the subset of people who have difficulty coping with tragedy. It makes sense that that's where attention will shift as a society becomes prosperous and safe. You can finally begin to optimize on the 10% problems.

But most people have okay coping skills as tragedy was common place for hundreds of thousands of years. Using the same strategies can re-victimize them. Think of PTSD. The problem with PTSD is an inability of the mind to let go--a person is always reliving the moment in terms of stressfulness, if not literal imagery and thoughts. Forcing someone to sit in a room and discuss a tragic experience whose memory of the experience has already, naturally begun to fade into the background is its own tragedy.

That's my $0.02. Maybe I'm just naive.

[mixmastamyk]

Interesting, but aren’t these groups meant primarily for folks who haven’t moved on yet?

[stcredzero]

Maybe I'm just naive.

Welcome to the human condition!

[Flip-per]

That's interesting.

In the list of intentional homicides Sri Lanka indeed ranks higher than I expected, rank 132 of 230: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

About being calm: I agree about the anger on roads. Except for that my impression was a calm and peaceful one -- maybe what you encounter as violent is still OK from my culturally distinct perspective? Do you think there are many 'fights'/arguments where people are shouting in the public, or would such a thing happen at home?

And what is your opinion about the high suicide rate?

[hliyan]

You've been quite fortunate. Perhaps you picked the best places and the best times to travel. During rush hour, most people in Colombo are on a hair trigger -- all it takes is a small incident to start a shouting match. In contrast, I recently traveled to Texas, and found Texans to be incredibly chilled out and friendly by comparison. Perhaps it is a cultural perspective.

There are many fights and tense situations, but more in places like inner city Colombo than in Kandy or Galle.

RE: suicide: hard to say. Our alcohol consumption and suicide stats are both extremely high. But even after living here all my life, it's hard to pin down a theory about why this is. My personal belief is that the average Sri Lankan's belief in Karma and astrological fate results in a defeatist attitude. We often hear the phrase "I/he/she probably did something in a past life to deserve this" in reference to tragedy, hardship or misfortune.

[comicjk]

Your premise is mistaken. Sri Lanka's murder rate is lower than that in the US, but that doesn't make it low by international standards. I doubt that Buddhism has much to do with it. For example, both Israel and Jordan have much lower murder rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

[GVIrish]

Parent post is talking about suicide rate, not murder rate. Unless the original post mixed it up and later corrected it.

[comicjk]

The premise is that Sri Lanka has unusually low crime and unusually high suicide, and the following argument is trying to explain that. But judged by murder rate (the most consistent crime stat), Sri Lanka doesn't have unusually low crime.

[pgsandstrom]

I have several friends that work as psychologist, and the consensus seems to be that while it is unhealthy to not express anger in any way, it is neither a good thing to give in to anger. That is, if someones behaviour is provoking you, it would be good to air your troubles somehow. If you cant talk to the person in question, perhaps talk about it with your friends. But it would not be helpful to pick a fight or scream. Giving in to anger usually leads to more anger.

[scotty79]

> ... consensus seems to be that while it is unhealthy to not express anger in any way, it is neither a good thing to give in to anger.

As far as I understand, the best way to deal with anger is never to act on it and distract yourself till it passes.

The thing people talk about as suppressing anger is not actually suppressing. It's more like polishing it, sharpening, watering like a plant, fanning like a flame so it's ready for the time you will act on it. And that's definitely not healthy.

Acting on anger to provide outlet is also bad because it increases probability of getting angry and acting angry in the future.

The best way is actually suppressing anger. Observing, I'm angry. Deciding I'm never gonna act on this anger. So there's no point of holding onto it. Let's do something else till it extinguishes.

[beaconstudios]

Suppressing anger leads to mental health issues. What you're describing isn't suppression (lying to yourself that you're not angry, or ignoring your feelings) - it's a healthy way to deal with it. Suppression is bad for your mental health, but acting impulsively on anger is bad for your social and probably physical wellbeing. What you need to do is feel the anger, acknowledge it, maybe talk it through with the appropriate person. Distracting yourself from it is also known as "bottling up your feelings" and it's a well known cause of problems.

[scotty79]

That's not bottling. You just don't pay attention to it and then you forget about what you were angry and forget you even were angry.

You need to acknowledge to yourself that you are angry but only for the purpose of making a decission not to act on it and possibly postpone actions that you being angry might influence adversely.

Talking it through will only increase likelyhood that the memory of being angry will stick with you.

Bottling up your feelings is the other thing I describe where you keep your anger instead of letting it dissolve.

[koheripbal]

I have found that understanding often diffuses anger.

For example, if you are dangerously cut off by someone on the highway and you speed ahead to yell at them, your blood is boiling with the expectation of a confrontation... until you stop at the next light and realize the person is having a seizure and actually needs help! In that moment your new understanding of the situation melts your anger away very very effectively.

In general, if you practice and train your mind to seek understanding of the circumstances surrounding the behavior that's making you angry, your anger will melt.

[scotty79]

I occasionally get angry at people doing unpredictable or frightening things on the road but I'm rarely blessed with understanding.

What I do is I try to keep myself from building larger narrative around it with malicious reckless idiot drivers as the villains.

Then each instance of anger lingers usually for roughly a day and then gets forgotten.

[sidesentists]

Psychologist here. Anger and optimal responses to it is a complicated issue. There is research (involving randomized controlled designs) suggesting that approaches to anger where you "act it out" can actually fuel the fire, like you're suggesting.

However, it's complicated because these studies generally focus on length of emotional response rather than complex, downstream effects. That is, they assume that the goal is to stop anger state; by that assumption, it's better to adopt a sort of distress tolerance approach than to act on it. But what about long-term effects on relationships and communication? Where does one draw the line? Stonewalling and cutting off communication is a strong predictor of relationship dissolution for example, even relative to intense expressive patterns. So if your response is to always approach your anger robotically and to shut it down, does it then lead to passive aggressive responses, which can be even worse?

There's also an important distinction between anger and aggression, which are different and have different associations empirically, even though people tend to conflate the two. This isn't unreasonable, because I'm not sure at what point you draw the line.

As a parent of a toddler, this article had me thinking a lot, and I'm not sure what I think. Lying to your child, for example, is manipulative. Is it better to express your anger or to lie to them and tell them a monster will bite off their fingers? Of course a child who's cognitively not developed enough to understand will become terrified, because they believe it. But is living in real fear of a disfiguring monster over a minor transgression really less aggressive than simply visibly expressing anger? Or is it just a manipulative aggressive response on the part of the parent?

I really don't know the answers to these types of questions. I wish I did.

[maroonblazer]

At least in the U.S. culturally I think we still have a long way to go when it comes to having what some have termed 'difficult conversations'[0]. In essence, confronting people with their behavior but in a way that's respectful and focused on the impact it has on the recipient (me) as opposed to the aggressor. Sure, it may not change their behavior, but processing the experience and the associated emotions - at least in my experience - is more effective than not dealing with them at all.

[0]There's a good book on this subject called "Difficult Conversations": https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-...

[maire]

Anger is chemical and not psychological and will pass. See Sapolsky's discussion of the Limbic system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw

When I am angry I am self aware enough to wait until the chemicals are gone in order to discuss things. I don't think this is unhealthy in any way. In fact, I usually don't like the feeling of anger and look forward with happiness to the calm that will follow. It is interesting that the original source of anger becomes resolved once the chemicals are gone. I found it interesting that the Inuits do the same thing.

[n_t]

I might not be able to explain properly but I think there is difference in suppressing anger and not getting angry at all. I agree with what you say about suppression but what if that emotion of anger didn't germinate at all? Latter is what this article is referring to. However, you do bring up nice point and it has expanded my understanding too.

[saiya-jin]

Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough. People are just people at their core, far from flawless we all crave to be.

You can't see it as a tourist there (at least I couldn't, but I didn't travel to north where most bad stuff happened). But generally this ancient mindset of 'not losing the face' can only lead to misery and desperation down the path, no matter the location. It seems its slowly dying which should be a net gain for societies still harboring it

[maxxxxx]

"Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough"

Same for Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge.

[growlist]

There is also a lot of poverty. And your experience as a tourist does not match mine - Sri Lanka is one of the few places to which I have vowed never to return, specifically because of the pointing, laughing, photo-taking, catcalling, touching etc. my blonde partner had to endure (and this whilst being respectfully dressed with her hair mostly covered), not to mention physical pushing and shoving from locals at tourist sites.

[golergka]

> Studies show that hiding aggression is one possible cause for depressions

Definetly the case for me. I was always proud of my kindness to others and almost complete inability to act in aggressive way — right until I finally went into therapy because of depression-like symptoms (I was never diagnosed with full-on clinical depression, so I abstain from using this term). Turns out, stopping your impulses because of your desire to be "nice" and please everyone around you is NOT the most emotionally healthy thing you could do! It's certainly good for others, but not for yourself.

So, now, in therapy, I re-learn exactly the things that these inuit children learn to avoid. At 30, I train to act out, to raise my voice, to listen to my emotions of anger and frustration and giving them a legitimate outlet, instead of pushing them down and letting them rot somewhere inside (often breaking out in awful passive-agressive ways that I don't even notice).

[danharaj]

> So, now, in therapy, I re-learn exactly the things that these inuit children learn to avoid.

I don't think you're learning to express your anger the way a 2 year old impulsively would.

[cies]

Highest suicide rate per "group" in my country is for "young females or a specific religious denomination". I wonder if the high suicide rate in Lanka can also be isolated to some sub group, that usually help in trying to figure out the cause.

In case of the afore mentioned group of girls: they have a lot of pressure on them from family (basically to be "perfect" for some often arranged'ish marriage).

[pharke]

I think it's worth stating that learning to control your emotions is not synonymous with learning to suppress your emotions. The first involves acknowledging the emotion and expressing/discussing it or it's cause if it is warranted the second approach simply ignores both symptom and cause regardless of validity.

[mlrtime]

Not to sound insensitive but this sounds like a good trade off. If for say in the US there were no crime, everyone got along, no major arguments... but in turn the suicide rate went up 50% (10 to 15 per 100,000) I wouldn't see this as a net negative.

[zachguo]

The suicide rate of Sri Lanka is roughly the same as the one of United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide...

[hjk05]

> It's a very safe place, crime and stealing is almost nonexistent.

It’s comparable to Russia in crime statistics. It’s not exactly great, but not bad either. I think almost the entire norther Europe are far superior to Sri Lanka. But I guess it is much better than most of India.

[elviejo]

Buddhist believe in reincarnation. So they have already less death aversion than westerners. Maybe that accounts for part of the suicide rate.

[maxxxxx]

Suicide is a big sin in Buddhism and will give you a bad rebirth. I wonder if it's the trauma from the civil war.

[tastyfreeze]

Trauma from the civil war sounds much more plausible than Buddhism or emotional restraint. Twenty-five years of war is bound to leave a generous portion of the population with PTSD and grief of loss. People suffering from PTSD or grief tend to have higher suicide rates in other countries.

[maxxxxx]

We should also keep in mind that "Buddhist countries" probably are as Buddhist as "Christian countries" are Christian which is not much.

[HNLurker2]

>bad rebirth

Carl Sagan Dragon fallacy (1) reincarnation may be as real as not existing. Buddhism was mainly a way to solve India caste problem.

(1) Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

[vict00ms]

This is reductive and uninformed.

[bluntfang]

please link the sources you are talking about!