[everdev]

I think accidents per trip (flight leg) is a more useful metric than accidents per year. If you're interested in mechanical issues then you'd also need to remove terrorism related deaths.

Yes, it's a small sample size, but if you look at the fatal accident rate per flight leg of a 737 MAX 8, I'm sure it's much higher rate than any other modern aircraft.

[EForEndeavour]

According to https://www.tripsavvy.com/the-safest-aircraft-54428, the following modern aircraft have fatality-free records:

Boeing 717 (formerly the MD95)

Bombardier CRJ700/900/1000 regional jet family

Airbus A380

Boeing 787

Boeing 747-8

Airbus A350

Airbus A340

[jpatokal]

This list is meaningless without accounting for the number of aircraft & the number of miles they have flown. For example, the 737 is not only the world's most popular commercial airliner, it's simultaneously the "most dangerous plane" because it has had 145 accidents [1] and one of the safest planes because the 737 NG variant has only had one crash in 16,047,900 flight hours. [2]

[1] https://www.airfleets.net/crash/stat_plane.htm

[2] http://www.travelvivi.com/the-safest-aircrafts-in-the-world/

And indeed, the 787, 747-8, A350 and arguably the A380 are all new planes that have not accumulated the decades of flight history with huge fleets that the 737 has.

[EForEndeavour]

True, but the 737 MAX 8's first commercial flight was in 2017, much newer than any of the aircraft on the above list. The point is that such a new aircraft already has a far worse safety record than plenty of aircraft that have been around for years. I think it's irrelevant to compare 737 subtypes, since discussion focuses on the 737 MAX 8 variant specifically.

> And indeed, the 787, 747-8, A350 and arguably the A380 are all new planes that have not accumulated the decades of flight history with huge fleets that the 737 has.

The 787's first commercial flight was in 2011. The 747-8 in 2012. A350: 2015. A380: 2007. All predate the 737 MAX 8 by years, and have better safety records.

[rurban]

You have to know that the problematic Anti-Stall feature was just recently added in the MAX rev 8. The older rev 1-7 don't have it. It might have other stall problems due to being backheavy, but the traditional stall warning should have been good enough. There was no accident in rev 1-7, none with the improved Southwest configuration (with two sensors) and already two complete losses with the updated MCAS rev 8. They already did two more updates on this (9 and 10), but still not safe enough for modern safety standards.

[jpatokal]

Sure, but for comparison, the original 737 was launched in 1967 (!) and even the 737 NG has been flying since 1997.

So while having two MAXes crash after takeoff mere months apart is indeed statistically unlikely, I wouldn't necessarily leap to the conclusion that the two accidents are related just yet.

[valuearb]

The Concorde used to be #1 on this list, while being the least safe commercial jetliner of all time.