[geebee]

Why not just have immigration? Full and free citizens who have the right to pursue a job or career in response to personal interests and market signals?

If people prefer to work a accountants in Cincinnati rather than devs in the valley, that’s the market’s answer. If people choose to drop out of stem PhD programs and open a crepe stand, that’s the markets answer. If being a PhD student we’re a better deal, the market might give a different answer.

Why a program that allows corporations to determine the jobs immigrants are allowed to work and the circumstances under which they are allowed to live in the us, simply because they don’t like the market’s answer?

[bradleyjg]

We have programs like that. Are you suggesting adding 45,000 or so visas to the EB 2/3 categories and eliminating the H1B? You'd still have corporations driving the process as those visas require an employer-sponsor (albeit once the visa is actually granted the situation is closer to full and free situation than it is for H1Bs).

[geebee]

I believe that any large scale immigration program that denies would be immigrants the right to participate freely in labor markets is pretty much hopeless.

All this discussion about requirements of “market pay”, limitations on skills that “can’t be found elsewhere”, jobs “citizens don’t want to do”... i just find it so weird that people use free market rhetoric to defend a program like this. I mean, to people who lean libertarian, doont phrases like the ones above seem terribly clueless, even deeply corrupt?

I think this actually becomes an affront to human freedom. What, you’re only allowed into the us if you interview the way google says you should interview, live where google says you should live, and so forth? And yeah I know ther is some limited transferability if you find a new “sponsor” (a euphemism, in my opinion, for someone who can have you deported if you get too uppity about not liking open offices or daily scrum applications of deadline pressures).

If the 300 million us citizens or roughly 1.2 million immigrants who come to the us don’t want to do the job at the pay offered... I just don’t get it, how can people who appear from their comments to be libertarian or free market leaning not see the state power granted to tech companies using the h1b? It’s weird, and gives me pause.

I’ve started thinking a lot of so called libertarians are 11th hour libertarians. They want the government to prop them up with all kinds of subsidies and state power, but get pissed when there’s the slightest state interference with their scheme to profit from it.