[renholder]

>In other words, you're out of touch with ordinary, less privileged workers.

Just because I'm "out of touch" with ordinary, less privileged workers doesn't equate to my experience and observations in the sector as being invalidated, yeah? Isn't the site "Hacker News" and not "ordinary, less privileged workers'" news?

>Oh, come on. If you're a developer you can have a "work from home" day in the US as well.

That might be true for you but is it true for developers in the overall society?

Let's take this to an extreme example: A coworker missed over two months, last year, for 'x' medical reasons. What would've surely driven him to the poor house in the states was paid through those taxes you later commented on and there was no threat to his job because of it.

>Plus, you can earn far more and you pay less in taxes.

What does that have to do with anything related to kids and the propensity to send them to school because you haven't the time to take off to take care of them or the funds to have a minder? Surely, those less taxes (and more pay) should equate to more days from school, yeah, if it really is as exceptional as you're trying to make it sound.

Personally, I like paying taxes for a better society (e.g.: education, health, infrastructure, etc.) but that's just me. However, that has nothing to do the topic.

[TheCoelacanth]

> Let's take this to an extreme example: A coworker missed over two months, last year, for 'x' medical reasons. What would've surely driven him to the poor house in the states was paid through those taxes you later commented on and there was no threat to his job because of it.

Disability insurance is a standard employment benefit in the US for white collar jobs and they would be protected from dismissal by the FMLA.

Less privileged workers undoubtedly have it better in Europe than they do in the US, but it's completely dishonest to compare a developer in Europe to a cashier in the US. Even in Europe, cashiers and construction workers cannot work from home. Even in the US many people do work from home sometimes.

[zeroname]

> Just because I'm "out of touch" with ordinary, less privileged workers doesn't equate to my experience and observations in the sector as being invalidated, yeah?

It means your experience doesn't scale to broader society, but you were making a point about broader society. If the ordinary secretary or the shift worker or the policeman don't get their "work from home days" there's essentially no difference in your example to what's going on in the US.

> That might be true for you but is it true for developers in the overall society?

Working from home on occasion certainly isn't unusual.

> Let's take this to an extreme example: A coworker missed over two months, last year, for 'x' medical reasons. What would've surely driven him to the poor house in the states was paid through those taxes you later commented on and there was no threat to his job because of it.

"Surely" you have no idea about the US system. Paid sick days is something your insurance may or may not cover. You get the choice of whether you want to pay for that or not. States laws also may protect workers from getting fired during longer illness.

> What does that have to do with anything related to kids...

Nothing, just rubbing it in. If you're successful in Finland (or some other little Euro country), you're going to be far less wealthy than in the US. You'll be paying for everyone else to live. If that makes you happy, go for it. Pat yourself on the back.

[xena]

> Working from home on occasion certainly isn't unusual.

Tell that to the employer that fired me for doing this lol.

[renholder]

>Working from home on occasion certainly isn't unusual.

Occassion and modus operandi are two entirely different precepts but you know this, yeah, and your trying ever-so hard to be pedantic. It's cute.

>Paid sick days is something your insurance may or may not cover.

I thought it was the employer who paid the sick days in the states. What you're talking about falls under the FMLA, I believe; which is an entire different set of principles - independent of the actual employer, yeah? Then you reinforce the point that it's not an overall societal protection with the statement, "States laws also may protect workers from getting fired during longer illness."

>Nothing, just rubbing it in.

You've brought nothing of attainable consequence to the conversation, much less any evidence of your assertion. How can you rub in that which you assume to be true but have no evidence for or against? The arrogance is astounding, to say the least.

>If you're successful in Finland (or some other little Euro country), you're going to be far less wealthy than in the US.

I'm assuming you're speaking of purely fiscal wealth, which is a pretty myopic perspective to have. You've provided no evidence of this claim. Are you sure we, the europoor, are actually poor or is this just something you're reverberating from the echo chambers of American exceptionalism.

>You'll be paying for everyone else to live.

Do you not do this with the current Social Security system? The irony is palpable...

>If that makes you happy, go for it.

Already doing it, so this is pretty pedestrian.

>Pat yourself on the back.

Is this not what you're trying to do with your own argument around more pay and less taxes? Pot meet kettle. The banality of this tangible irony is already starting to bore me.

Do you have anything of consequence to proffer or is it going to continually be this mundane level of effort, deriving from your bravado? If the latter of the two, then, you're bringing a knife to a gun show and it wouldn't be fair to keep being you with your own phantom limbs, so I'm dipping out. Have fun!

[dang]

Flamewars will get you banned here. Please do not post like this to Hacker News, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[kortilla]

>Are you sure we, the europoor, are actually poor or is this just something you're reverberating from the echo chambers of American exceptionalism.

I’m not sure why you are getting so defensive when it is you who understands so little about the US that you just described a typical US tech job and tried to pretend it was something special about Europe.

Developers in the US make significantly more on average than developers anywhere in Europe. Developers working at the big tech companies do even better than that by clearing north of $300k annually between stock, cash, and bonuses. These jobs allow working from home, provide healthcare, PTO, significant maternity/paternity leave, etc. A few minutes of googling these numbers might help you gain some perspective.

The US is easily the best place to be when you have in-demand skills. Every country is going to trail pretty far behind on what it’s employment ecosystem can offer a developer (as of right now). This is why your post sounds so ignorant to people familiar with the perks of being a developer in the US.

Where the US is absolutely terrible compared to Europe is the social safety nets that people in worse jobs depend on. Yet that’s not what you decided to use as your point of comparison. You instead tried to show off the perks of tech skills there, which are worse than many HN readers receive in the US.

[zeroname]

> Occassion and modus operandi are two entirely different precepts but you know this, yeah, and your trying ever-so hard to be pedantic.

It is you who is being pedantic. My point is that working from home, as a developer, because of some special case is generally possible, just like in your case.

Now what about all the other professions in your country? Do they all get their little "stay at home" days? No? Then what's your point?

> How can you rub in that which you assume to be true but have no evidence for or against? The arrogance is astounding, to say the least.

Why, I thought it was common knowledge.

Finland, as compared to the US:

Higher cost of living with less disposable income:

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/Un...

Developer salaries half as high:

https://www.daxx.com/blog/development-trends/it-salaries-sof...

Unemployment rate 50% higher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemploym...

And obviously, the weather in Northern Europe sucks. Priceless!

> I'm assuming you're speaking of purely fiscal wealth, which is a pretty myopic perspective to have.

No, I'm talking about the standard of living. Of course somebody with a lower standard of living will have to find some other reason to make themselves look superior.

> Do you not do this with the current Social Security system?

You can look up the difference yourself.

> The irony is palpable... Do you have anything of consequence to proffer or is it going to continually be this mundane level of effort, deriving from your bravado? If the latter of the two, then, you're bringing a knife to a gun show and it wouldn't be fair to keep being you with your own phantom limbs, so I'm dipping out.

I don't know about your native language, but if you write like this in English, it makes you sound like a clown.

[dang]

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Would you please not create accounts to do this with on HN?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html