[s3m4j]

I've seen people write Java or C# like I would write plain C. Those first two are insanely high level with large standard libraries.

[omaranto]

I disagre with "Those first two are insanely high level" but totally agree with the "with large standard libraries." part.

[astrodust]

Java: "I've got a huge standard library!"

C: "See, you're doing it wrong! I've got a really lean standard library!"

Java: "Ah, so you just focus on the basics. You have a dictionary structure? That's pretty basic."

C: "...no."

[blattimwind]

BSDs have <sys/queue.h> and <sys/tree.h>; the former is standard on Linux as well.

[s3m4j]

To my eyes just having generics and hiding away pointers and vtables make them very high level, but I think my argument was more about what is coming with the language (aka their standard libraries) and I've definitely seen people ignore the available libraries, even in python.