[atoav]

Actual evidence of backdoors would be a start.

There is a long list of state security enforced backdoors in american products. The list for Huawei is short. The US typically assumes the tactics itself uses must be used by anybody else.

If you want us to choose between the Chinese and the Five Eyes spying on us, providing actual evidence for Chinese spying would be worth a lot for the side that has at least traces of “democratic oversight” left as a figleaf.

I can certainly imagine incentives for the Chinese why they wouldn’t risk their long term gain for a short term spying information. To spy on everybody might be totally without alternative from the perspective of a struggling empire that crumbles on all corners, but not for a newcomer who might win more by not killing its tech industries by showing they can’t be trusted.

Still, if there is compelling evidence I might change my mind on the matter.

[ovi256]

>Actual evidence of backdoors

There doesn't have to be a backdoor today. In the future, whenever they desire, the Chinese gov can ask Huawei for access and they will comply. That's the threat model.

[atoav]

Yeah, but if you have the choice between a product with an existing history of backdoors and one which potentially, at some point in the future based on political prediction could have one, how do you choose?

Let’s assume you are not in the US and industrial spionage will be bad for you independend if it happens from China or from the US.

The answer isn’t that clearcut.

Also: banning a product based on the possibility that it could get a backdoor in the future? That would mean banning all products with an update functionality.

Edit: as you might notice this is not compelling evidence

[zaphirplane]

You are kidding You want to use equipment from a country that is known to steal IP. Hang on you want other people to use equipment under control of the communist party Now I get it. Your social credit score has increased

[gsich]

Same applies for other countries, nobody seems to care there. With companies like Cisco you don't even need that, seeing that they have a backdoor released every other week.

[maze-le]

That just wrong. I know plenty people, that work on small-scale IT-infrastructure projects for municipal- and city-level administration. Cisco has become a liability as far as network equipment is considered.

[jessaustin]

just wrong

Near as I can tell, you agree that Cisco is a hazard, in precisely the way that Huawei is accused of being but is not. Are you really just disagreeing with the proposition that nobody cares about Cisco's problems?

[maze-le]

>> Are you really just disagreeing with the proposition that nobody cares about Cisco's problems?

Yes, thats what I am disagreeing with... Nothing more nothing less. No word of Huawei, since they are considered a liability by default and I don't know people that work with telephony/cell-network infrastructure.

[zaphirplane]

You are pretending to confuse state level spying and ip theft with incompetence

[gsich]

>incompetence

With Cisco it's systematic. I don't know if all their shit can be attributed to incompetence.

[zaphirplane]

> Still, if there is compelling evidence I might change my mind on the matter.

You are trying to change other people’s mind. You are pretending to ignore IP theft, fairness if courts, future party ordered back doors While hand waving some concerns

Ps your social credit score just dropped

[zaphirplane]

Wow such a strong voice for a foreign (to you) company, or is it - shifty eye look

Your position is weird, you need evidence that the Chinese are spying on you ? And you don’t think they do ? Ha too funny

You want proof that the Chinese communist party will never order them to insert a back door. ROTFL

You really are preparing your social credit score when the over lords arrive

[jessaustin]

GP is perfectly rational, without donning the "USA always right number one" goggles you seem to have had permanently attached. Why would any private individual in USA be more concerned about Chinese surveillance than about the surveillance of NSAFBIDEADOJ, who after all can lock any of us up and throw away the key?

[zaphirplane]

Well unfortunately the world is divided into security zones so if you are in NATO or 5 eyes you’d be an idiot to use Chinese equipment If you have have valuable intellectual property you’d be an idot if you don’t think China hacks steals and passes it to its companies If you are neither then you are right