[wjossey]

And to your point, they absolutely could solve the chokepoint issues with eminent domain, and adding additional arteries, but they choose not to.

For people who think a congestion tax will improve traffic, it won't. Congestion taxes work if they can shift behaviors to alternate modes of transportation. If there aren't any alternatives, it's just a levy.

[floatrock]

> and adding additional arteries

Time and time again cities learn this does nothing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

[wjossey]

Induced demand doesn’t say that nothing happened. It says that demand just fills up the new supply.

There are no alternatives to a road system in LA for most residents. If the roads were choked and there was an underutilized subway that I could use, I’d totally get the argument of taxing the road system or capping capacity, so as to push people toward more efficient methods. But, it’s not feesible to build out a subway system in this city that is expansive, so we need to work with what we have- Cars.

Make LA the autonomous car capital of the world. Let’s be the best and first at linking cars together in convoys and shuttling them fast down our massive freeway network.

Let’s build tunnels under the mountain passes to add more connections into Hollywood so people have better access than winding canyon roads.

Let’s build expansive subway networks through south central and downtown to bring cost effective transportation to lower income neighborhoods.

Let’s do a ton. But let’s also build a bunch of roads.

[jedberg]

> Let’s build tunnels under the mountain passes to add more connections into Hollywood so people have better access than winding canyon roads.

This is an interesting idea. I just measured it out, and assuming you could build a straight tunnel to bypass the canyon at the 405, it would be 5.3 miles.

To bypass Laurel Canyon would be a 3.0 mile tunnel.

Coldwater bypass would be 4.1 miles.

So the question is, do we the technology to build tunnels that long and deep (all of those are about 1000 feet). And is it a good idea to build a 1000 foot deep tunnel in an area known for earthquakes?

[wjossey]

I'm not an engineer of that sort, but I'd imagine if we can build subways in earthquake-prone zones like SF, LA, and Tokyo, we can build safe tunnels under mountains in an earthquake zone.

[CamperBob2]

So removing existing roads will lessen congestion, right?

[djakjxnanjak]

Congestion taxes can also shift road use to other times. Imagine many people on the roads are making relatively short trips (eg. a trip that takes 20 mins in traffic instead of 10 mins) that generate a lot of lane changes and contribute to congestion. A congestion tax could encourage them to drive in non-peak times, use the bus, or not make the trip.

[pishpash]

The city is already built this way and people already made decisions on where to work and live based on facts on the ground. Unless congestion charges are levies only on newcomers, it has no legitimacy. Try these social experiments on a new city.

[amanaplanacanal]

> The city is already built this way and people already made decisions on where to work and live based on facts on the ground.

This would indicate to me that they are already OK with the level of congestion they currently have. But that's not what they say. Some kind of disconnect.

[djakjxnanjak]

You consent to public policy changes by living in society. In particular, you chose to live in a city with lawmaking bodies that are expected to enact policies to adapt to changing times. If you think the pros of some change outweigh the cons, make the argument, but don’t claim that public policy writ large is illegitimate.