[craigsmansion]

> Musically, it's almost entirely straight-up bad (when Varg Vikernes is the best a movement has to offer, you know there's a quality problem)

That's a very precarious judgement call, unless you mean the severely limited production value, which has become a hallmark of black metal by itself.

[eponeponepon]

No, I mean half of them flat-out don't know how to handle their instruments properly, and even the ones who do are still using them to make art that is lazy, adolescent and derivative.

The production-value stuff I totally understand and wholly dig, and that's not why I lack respect for their music.

[craigsmansion]

> half of them flat-out don't know how to handle their instruments properly

I'd venture to say that's in the eye of the beholder. A highly skilled, say, progressive rock guitarist could reasonably claim all of them don't know how to handle their instruments.

> lazy, adolescent and derivative.

I wouldn't discount any argument that would claim this is true for all metal. In a way, that's part of its appeal.

[eponeponepon]

    > In a way, that's part 
    > of its appeal. 

You're not wrong - and this is no small part of why it's a tough problem.

But I think those three are a bit of a "pick any two" situation.