[Murdoch]

The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning.

I found it interesting that a person in the article who made $1.2M a year was still depressed in thinking they were wasting their lives and it was all meaningless. I ask myself, does this person have children? a family to leave wealth to? or children to teach values to? I'm sorry but we have become so weak in our desire to satisfy only our own goals. That person's duty is to his family, and children (if he has any). His duty to society is to raise children with values that are compatible with the society. Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence.

[nimonian]

> maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning

I can't just accept dogma because I'm miserable. I can't just say 2+2=5 even if it would make me feel better. Religion isn't something you can just pick up like pilates. If life is inherently without meaning or direction, I'd rather go with that and be true to myself than refract the universe through some doctrine I understand to be false.

Self-knowledge, mindfulness, wisdom, spirituality, reflectiveness - I can make my peace with these. But I think it is bordering on unfair to proffer a deity as a solution to depression and anxiety.

[kough]

Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? Organized Christianity is just one flavor.

[nostromo]

> Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion?

I'd call that mindfulness not religion.

[germinalphrase]

Religion has been the guiding force for this kind of internal reflection and family/community thought. As religion has declined in many west societies, we haven’t replaced them effectively.

We may not need more religion, but it sure seems like we need something. Building our society so heavily on economic expediency can’t be healthy long term.

[munk-a]

I'm in favor of more prolific philosophy circles. There is probably a group in your area that gets together regularly to discuss the works of different philosophers, join in and study up on some Kierkegaard and I think you'll find it gives you a lot of the same pay off.

[germinalphrase]

I’m familiar with those kinds of meetings and family members that attend. I’m fortunate in that I work in a field that is very much service oriented (from a humanism point of view) that offers a lot of fulfillment and the opportunity to consider & and demonstrate my personal values.

My comments - I guess - are more generally focused. I feel similarly about male identify. We’ve walked back many aspects of traditional masculinity (often for good reason and for positive social benefits) but haven’t - as a society - replaces them with alternatives. I think it leaves many young men without a positive vision for “what it means to be a man”. These are opportunities, but I don’t know how we can work through them without a distinct shared cultural vision for what we all want to be. Individualism has its downsides too.

[rollinDyno]

What would you call a religion?

[nimonian]

Maybe I jumped the gun there and got a bit sidelined by semantics. In my mind, theism is a necessary but not sufficient condition for religion. Ritual, on the other hand, intersects with religion and irreligion (again, in my mind). I saw another comment speaking about 'atheistic religion' which to me is an oxymoron. I now think the word religion is overloaded.

Didn't mean any offence to anyone - I have an issue with the idea of palliative doublethink, not religion, theistic or otherwise.

[zolthrowaway]

You're right that you can't just dive head first into a religion. I was raised Catholic, but I don't identify with that at all anymore. I was atheist for a few years, but recently I've been reading Tao Te Ching and I've really taken to it. Religions don't have to be western and you don't have to believe in some omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator. It might be worth exploring some "religions" that you've never thought about before. I'm not saying they're going to cure your depression, but they may change how you see the world.

[flycaliguy]

I picked it up in 15 minutes with a DMT trip, but results may vary.

Stoic philosophy can also float in a nice pantheist grey area. I always keep in mind that the most insightful and present religious people I’ve ever met are by no men’s dogmatic and their spiritual exploration is part of their spirituality. The journey, the acceptance of your own fallibility, mindfulness, these are all parts of faith. The word faith works better for me than religion.

[derp_dee_derp]

dude religion isn't just dogma. Its also the collected wisdom of untold generations about how to live and not live your life. The stuff religion recommends, on average, works to make people's lives better for those who practice it.

our society has completely thrown the baby out with the bathwater when we arbitrarily decided that all organized religions are bad and that God doesn't exist.

[lapnitnelav]

We've been killing gods since the dawn of times.

The word religion itself originally was all about worshiping a god.

Now everyone can define "God" how they want and follow whatever the scriptures advise, but let's not fool ourselves here, it's always been about power / control.

[dragonwriter]

> The word religion itself originally was all about worshiping a god.

Not really, it was specifically about life under monastic vows (which, where it was coined, involved worship of the Christian God, but that wasn't the feature “religion” referred to, but instead the life bound by vows.)

In fact, the Catholic Church still used the adjective and noin “religious” in that sense, while it uses “religion” in the newer modern sense; a monk or nun is a “religious", a cleric in an order is a member of the “religious clergy” while those outside of an order are members of the “secular clergy”.

[lapnitnelav]

Yeah but if you dig deeper [0], original latin word : "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness"

https://www.etymonline.com/word/religion

[hndamien]

Actually, you can. There is a no dogma religion that exists for this reason (among others) because the value of religion and community of like minded individuals is recognised. However, the danger of religion is also a central tenet. Check out Yoism if you are actually interested.

[xkcd-sucks]

Have you considered "religion" as "that which gives meaning in life" rather than "the supernatural"?

[BucketSort]

1. Man is the son of an infinite source: a son of that Father not by the flesh but by the spirit.

2. Therefore man should serve that source in spirit.

3. The life of all men has a divine origin. It alone is holy.

4. Therefore man should serve that source in the life of all men. Such is the will of the Father.

5. The service of the will of that Father of life gives life.

6. Therefore the gratification of one's own will is not necessary for life.

7. Temporal life is food for the true life.

8. Therefore the true life is independent of time: it is in the present.

9. Time is an illusion of life; life in the past and in the future conceals from men the true life of the present.

10.Therefore man should strive to destroy the illusion of the temporal life of the past and future.

11.True life is life in the present, common to all men and manifesting itself in love.

12. Therefore, he who lives by love in the present, through the common life of all men, unites with the Father, the source and foundation of life.

That's Tolstoy's distillation of Jesus' teachings from "The Gospel in Brief". I have felt the same as you in the past, but when you look closely at some of these premises, they are more philosophical in nature rather than dogmatic. As a scientifically minded person, I have seen the unity of things, like in physics, where it does seem like there are some natural principles laid down. Or like in mathematics, where it seems like eternal truths are discovered, not manufactured. You can have a spiritual interpretation of this, or you can interpret it in whatever way you'd like. What I like about Tolstoy's rendering of Christ is that he basically rejects the stupid personification of God, and claims that Jesus didn't mean it that way to begin with, that the Church actually warped the teachings into a system of control.

I don't even believe Jesus was a real person, but these principles do make sense to me (at least some of it does), maybe they will make sense to you. Or maybe it's just dogma to you.

[fzeroracer]

America is already incredibly religious and the rich/wealthy are no exception. What exactly makes you think that these miserable people are not religious? Because it seems like you're extrapolating miserable = lack of religion, which seems like a nonsensical connection.

Religion has nothing to do with this unless you decide to No True Scotsman and claim that they aren't actually religious. The issue is that they're chasing a lifestyle of endless consumption where at a certain point consumption doesn't actually add anything to your life. Better houses, more cars, wealthier friends, eventually you hit a point where your capital only marginally affects your life until you hop into the hyper-wealthy category. At that point you can start using capital to influence policy but that still relies on personal conviction.

[zanny]

I think OP means religion in the framing context of spiritual belief in a moral philosophy, less in which flavor of the god of Moses you want to throw your sword behind.

Consumerism is, in large part, a religion. Its just, as you describe, a really shitty one. Capitalism for the capitalists is a religion. Totalitarianism for the dictator is a religion. I'd bet a lot of the animators and artists working at Disney and Pixar treat their business model and the company proper as a religion - the experience, the intent, the purpose behind what they do. For the shareholders its just to make gross amounts of money by owning all culture, but for those in the trenches giving their blood they probably feel like they are creating joy and that is a valuable pursuit.

Same for those working at Space X or Tesla or probably even Google and Apple. Most of the employees at those companies drink the kool-aid and have faith.

In those regards, anyone who is just existing, or anyone without faith - and it need not be more complicated than just faith in humanity or the potential for good in people or the promise of the future - is living a hollow, pointless life. And I'd buy that argument.

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

I disagree about it being religion specifically, but I would say that people need a better philosophy, a model of reality, to understand why the things they think will make them happy don't.

[toasterlovin]

I think it's useful to divorce the concept Religion from the concept of God in your mind. IMO, the religions of the future will be God-less. If you look at the jobs that religions typically do, a lot of the ground is being covered by science (telling a story about how we came to exist and what our purpose is) and the rest is being covered by political ideologies (how we should live our lives and how we should relate to other people).

Someone is going to figure out how to marry those two together someday...

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

I disagree about it being God-less per-se. I think people will come back around to a conception of God, not as an anthropomorphized magic sky wizard full of wrath and dogma, but as a philosophical concept that seems to underpin all of reality. And when that happens, they will look back at the religions of the past and find that they, in their own words, often spoke the same wisdom that will then be commonplace. We merely misunderstood it because we lacked the context see what what was really meant. Because the thing about context is that it is necessary for communication, and you don't get it for free.

[vibrato]

The religion of social justice based on marxist identity politics is alive and well.

[HashHishBang]

Because a 10% tithe is definitely something the shrinking middle class and the hopeless lower class can afford.

But putting that aside this sentiment of "look how bad things seem for people, religion can help" reeks of predatory behavior. If none turn towards whatever god you preach in times of plenty then what is left? To strike in a moment of weakness? To shift blame from whatever problems could be solved to instead attribute success and failure to the nebulous concept of faith? It's disgusting.

>That person's duty is to his family, and children (if he has any). His duty to society is to raise children with values that are compatible with the society

A society that is growing increasingly secular.

[3minus1]

There's no denomination or sect that actually tithes 10% on average. There was a freakonomics episode about it. There was as researcher who found that certain donominations tithe more or less but none reached 10%.

[HashHishBang]

I currently live in Utah which, for those who don't know, is predominately of Mormon faith. While those rates aren't published for some pretty clear reasons the overwhelming majority of individuals I've spoken to within the industry tithe at or above 10%. Granted this is the tech industry so middle class and above is common but it is pretty much a requirement to be an active member of the church.

This 1980 statement from the church is an interesting one and the sentiment seems to me mostly unchanged from my admittedly outside viewpoint. https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/1980/06/concerning-tithing?...

[bdamm]

It's increasingly secular right now. But religions grow and shrink like fashions and a new clutch may rise to fill the evident vacuum.

[HashHishBang]

Sure it's possible but one can hope we've grown beyond the majority needing a crutch to get through life.

[bdamm]

It may not be a crutch at all, but an essential part of human society. That's not the same as to say we need excessive dogma, churches funding super-PACs, DMCA wielding lawyers on staff, or silent code for dealing with rapist priests. We do need community, guidance, and a safe place to seek help when we're in trouble. Surely we can let some religions go by the wayside, and perhaps embrace alternatives that aren't in conflict with science or the contemporary rule of law.

[onwchristian]

I think there are some misconceptions of "Religion" here. I will readily admit that there are some cases where it has been used for predatory behavior, but one cannot generalize that.

I can vouch that many churches do not treat the tithe as an "entrance fee" and honestly many have no idea how much you make or force you to give that. More-so, it is up to the person to decide how much to give be it 1% or 50%.

I personally believe in God, I think there is enough evidence to point that direction. However, even if I were to not believe this way, I honestly feel that my lifestyle as a result is more fulfilling and enjoyable. As a result, I regularly get together with like-minded people from a variety of backgrounds and occupations that I probably would have never met otherwise, which has resulted in some of my closest friendships. I regularly get together with others in our homes for Bible study and "just hanging out" (fellowship in "Church words"). This small group of people has been instrumental in each others' lives when things are stressful by helping each other out (providing meals, childcare, or simply a listening ear).

My children also have a group of friends and an organization that aids me in helping teach a moral compass and values that are overall advantageous to our society, such as generosity, politeness, putting others first, being helpful, among other faith-oriented traits as well. This can stand as contrasts to some of the traits our children commonly see in our society or in various media forms (advertising, etc).

As far as tithing, I currently probably am "a bit below" 10%, though I'd like to increase it over time, because to me the value in my life and the value I see being provided to others makes it worth it. But I do not feel obligated to give.

While all these things potentially could be replicated in the "secular world," there is little incentive for people to become dedicated to it, and this is why by-in-large it is not replicated. The "organized" part of organized religion I think is the key here.

Also as contrast to the "predatory behavior" you speak of, a very large portion of the aid provided the poor or "less desirable in society" is provided by religious organizations (food banks, homeless shelters, etc). Many of these, because of their religious convictions and the convictions of their supporters are able to provide more services, more personal care, and more impactful results for much less money than many of the government initiatives. To be clear, I'm not proposing we get rid of the government initiatives. I'm mostly pointing out that in many cases, if practiced in alignment with the values they teach, religious activities are the opposite of predatory.

[martythemaniak]

I agree in general, it's something I've thought about. Sometimes I want to quit my software dev job and become a shaman because I see people miserable and unable to make sense of their lives. But who can afford to live on a shaman's salary :p

One thing I've consistently noticed in regards to jobs is that people's perceptions are very inward focused. It is all about whether they are fulfilled, if they are interested, if they are bored, if they're learning, etc. You can see this clearly in discussions on HN about "Bullshit Jobs". If people thought more about whether their job is useful to other people, rather than gratifying to themselves, they'll come to very different conclusions.

[canada_dry]

> maybe people need some religion in their lives

I'm going take 'religion' to simply mean 'something that gives them purpose and fulfillment' and agree.

Now that I'm reasonably comfortable (semi-retired, no debts) I've been focusing on "mindfulness" i.e. being fully present in the moment and enjoying the moment. Not looking at the past or longing for some particular future. I think this helps.

[isoskeles]

His duty is to go traveling and have adventures and drink the finest craft beers. I can't imagine why he'd find that all meaningless.

[kough]

I don't know why you were downvoted, this is right on the money. There's a reason we've all heard the phrase "crisis of meaning."

[Balgair]

Many commentators in this sub-thread mention that they can't accept the dogmas of a religion, despite acknowledging community and other benefits. For some, the Unitarian Universalist Church may be a good middle-ground:

https://www.uua.org/find

Individual congregations vary widely, so finding one near you that fits best may take a few months/weekends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

[kartan]

> Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence.

Isn't USA more religious than other more happy countries? Is not possible that actually religion and other external expectations are making Americans miserable?

If any, there is a correlation between religious countries and unhappiness.

Can you elaborate more on why do you think that religion is the solution and not the real problem?

[harperlee]

Really? I read long time ago, not at the country level, but that religious individuals were more happy.

Edit: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-athe...

[AlexB138]

I think you're very close to right, but not quite. I think what we actually need is something that fills the role religion used to fit into, but that is compatible with the modern world. Religions have too many supernatural elements that attempted to explain the world before we actually had the tools to find real answers. People see that dissonance, and a lot of the social control imposed by religion, become distrustful, and "throw out the baby with the bathwater". It's unfortunate because they then lose a lot of the wonderful underlying messages and meaning religion can give to life.

I think a lot of people feel that gap, and that's why you see a lot of the flimsy "spirituality" that is essentially just feel-good notions cobbled together. Eliade talked about this in The sacred and the profane: The nature of religion. People want meaning beyond pleasing themselves, they've just completely lost it in the face of a culture advocating self interest and consumption, and increasing secularism.

[munk-a]

I have individual faith and it's arisen out of a general respect for nature and acceptance of existential philosophical crises but... I'm never setting foot in a church. Organized religion in America is a toxic and terrible institution.

When I was growing up my parents were friends with a couple that had moved up from Georgia, as I grew older I learned that they have moved there after the father had been the pastor of a church and, when their daughter was born with down's syndrome. Due to the birth he had taken a sabbatical from preaching to raise his daughter, and while they were absent they became ostracized by the community. They were given the southern shame treatment and cut off from friends until they gave in and just moved up to New England.

While they were being shamed by their neighbors everything else carried on as normal, those neighbors went to church and prayed with everyone else and I outright reject any institution that supports that kind of behavior.

Organized religion is responsible to so many ills in modern society.

[tenpies]

Just curious, but how do you know that the church they prayed at supports the behaviour of their neighbours?

It just strikes me as odd logic, like saying that because a thief goes to church to pray, that church must condone thievery.

[munk-a]

Because the church was the community and the community shunned them as a group. Churches and organized religions lead to group think and in this case that group think was directed toward a deeply hateful purpose.

I have my own personal issues with religions involvement in politics on the modern stage, as well as the general concept of a prosperity gospel and the ills it forces on those who already have so little but what happened to that family is deeply disappointing and stabs at the core of me.

[obastani]

> He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said.

It sounds like part of the problem is his family (or at least with his wife)...

[justwalt]

I’ve agreed with this more and more as I get older. It wouldn’t surprise me if this correlation was pretty much universal.

It reminds me of using cheat codes in old video games. When you play normally, you’re chasing an objective that can take you a substantial amount of hours to achieve. But once you activate god mode and unlimited resources, the interest/enjoyment lasts about 15 minutes, and then the game feels pointless to play.

Without a higher purpose, then what is there? Personally, I don’t think I could ever be persuaded by or force myself to subscribe to to any religion. The highest goal I’ve given myself is to create a great family and teach my future children as best I can. I find it easier to ignore the question of “But why?” a little easier with this goal in mind than others.

[libraryatnight]

The happiest people I know aren't religious, but they have strong personal philosophies born out of healthy relationships and education. We don't need religion, we just need a healthier culture.

[caconym_]

I think it is a leap to say that duty and/or religion are the only logical cures for the existential ills of a miserable person stuck on a meaningless treadmill.

I started writing fiction in my own time and it has done wonders for my mental health and existential outlook. I do it for myself alone, and I'm not sorry for that; I certainly won't be made to feel guilty about it.

I'm sure what I'm doing is just one of many roads people could take out of their existential doldrums. Religion is one of those roads, I have no doubt.

[jgust]

I agree with your point, but not necessarily the execution. We deserve a better religion, one that skips the hand-wavey-guy-in-the-sky implausibility but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~.

[kartan]

> but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~.

Can that be philosophy and humanist approaches? That is a way to look for higher meaning without rewarding fanaticism or dogma.

[vasilipupkin]

beware of journalism masquerading as statistical analysis. This is useful as an interesting and entertaining serioes of anecdotes, not as a guide to what is actually taking place.

[adamredwoods]

My take was that the author's life only revolved around working, trying to maintain a set income level, and therefore did not have time to explore more interesting ventures.

[sp527]

You could also simply read excellent literature. That’s a more effective strategy to unpack and comprehend the human experience, with the added benefit of not incorporating tall tales of dubious veracity.